New job alarm bells

[Winterwonderlandisicy]

I’ve recently been offered a new job after my ftc ended. I have some concerns about the new job.

I was told the job was working from home but on the contract it states the place of work is location X . This is 2 hours drive each way from where I live.

Also included in the contract was a clause for clawing back the recruitment fee plus VAT in the event I leave. This is about £15,000.

In addition I was sent a medical questionnaire with about 50 highly invasive questions on it. There was also an added threat that if you don’t disclose everything and they find out you will be disciplined or dismissed.

I’m worried about this because I have a disability and I get the feeling the questioning at a later date will be highly intrusive.

The employer then decided to google me and found I’d done some work during the Covid period when my employer couldn’t afford to pay me, work was on hold and I was furloughed. The director said this was a conflict of interest and raised it with the recruiter.

The work which I did for a temp basis was over 2 years ago and the paperwork which was visible in public domain clearly indicated that this work was no longer being undertaken. The company were also told I was made redundant during Covid and this was agreed with former employer during Covid.

The director did not check the paperwork before making a serious accusation. It felt like I was being stabbed in the back before I’ve even started.

Would all these things raise alarm bells with you?

I’m at final interview stage for another job. The interview is next week. This is using another agent. The company has been told I have a job offer and if they want to offer I will need to know within 72 hours max. I’ve worked with this company historically for 6 years so stand in a good position.

YANBU - alarm bells are ringing don’t take the job

YABU - take the job

Sounds grim and uncaring and punitive... There will be a better job and I don't see anyone being kind to you if your disability comes to the fore. Trust that you are worth more and deserve better treatment. To start a job with so much fear for your job security and feeling vulnerable would be much deeper stress for you. Do you need that? If walking away means a bit less money I'd do it. Your wellbeing and privacy matter more.

All this before you've even started?

You're not going to be treated well here, work related stress here you come!

Walk away.

My contract at my new place of work states that the contracted place of work is the office (in London), but the usual place of work is Home.
This is so that they don't have to pay my travel expenses when I go in to the office.

Like others have said. The office location shouldn't be a problem. My job is now WFH but base is a town an hours drive away. It just means I can't claim expenses to get there but I can to any other sites. I actually don't even have a parking pass or security pass for the front door or that sire where as I do for two others. But the other things are alarm bells. I'd hold out for another role. In this climate it won't take long.

Yes, don’t take it , good luck for Monday

Agree with others saying never heard of a recruitment fee being clawed back! A sign on bonus or paying for you to do a Masters- yes.
If you’re WFH, then contract should say that.
The company asking all the medical questions, they’re probably a separate company hired for that sort of thing.

good luck!

Walk away.

The questioning around medical conditions seems invasive, but the company will want to satisfy themselves that you’re not going to be taking excessive sick leave, and given that you can be dismissed for non disclosure on the application form, I would be honest about any medical history. The protection works both ways - if you disclose absolutely everything and they hire you, you’re covered. Disability is a protected characteristic and if it became a problem later on, the employer has to show that they have made every effort to accommodate your disability or condition before dismissing you. DWP or ACAS can give you more information on what help and advice is available to the employer to make ‘reasonable adjustments’ if they’re needed.

Everything else is a red flag though. At the very least the employer sounds uncaring and quick to accuse when they weren’t in possession of all the facts. Re- the recruitment fees. I worked in the employment sector for a while - admittedly a few years ago, and I’ve seen this clause quite a few times. If the firm used a recruitment agency, usually the agency will refund fees to their client if the employee leaves or is sacked for gross misconduct within the first year - reimbursement is on a sliding scale, depending on the circumstances.

If the employer hasn’t checked and the recruitment agency doesn’t have any such policy, then they can chase you for the fees - a couple of cases have been upheld at tribunal, but as far as I can remember the cases were where the employee had either been sacked for misconduct or had left for another job within the first year. If you decide to take the job, you need to stipulate an end date for any such clause - ask for it to be rewritten with reimbursement on a sliding scale and the obligation ending after one year. Something else that bothers me is that you say you were offered the job at the end of a fixed term contract. How long was this for, because if it was in excess of one year, then I don’t see how the employer can hold you responsible for the recruitment fees.

If you have a disability or health condition I think you really need to ask yourself if it’s a good idea to take a job with an employer who is being difficult and confrontational before you’ve even started.

It's a question they would say that, wouldn't they".

You would be ill-advised to accept this job. The conditions of employment are appalling and them putting you under duress to reveal any medical conditions and threatening you if you don't, is against employment law in this country. There is no benefit in you picking them up on it, just give them a wide swerve and find somewhere you can feel valued and safe from threat.

they've shown you who they are and what you'd have in store if you started working for them.

@Winterwonderlandisicy
How did the alternative interview go?

they can chase you for the fees - a couple of cases have been upheld at tribunal, but as far as I can remember the cases were where the employee had either been sacked for misconduct or had left for another job within the first year

I'd be interested to see the actual tribunal decisions as this seems massively unfair - I can't really see how an employee would be responsible for the relationship between the employer and recruiter and payments due under it.

I've seen this one, but it was a slightly different point: www.springhouselaw.com/knowledge/reclaiming-recruitment-and-training-costs/#:~:text=Can%20an%20employer%20deduct%20recruitment%20fees%20and%2For%20training,at%20a%20cost%20of%20%C2%A3400%20to%20the%20company.

And this one, but again somewhat different: www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ea61f76a-5ae8-45c2-ab01-c4f128debc73

Both cases illustrate you need to be careful what you agree to in an employment contract though!

I hope your interview went well OP!

In one word the interview was a disaster.
The man in charge is on compassionate leave and it was covered by someone who has no experience in the niche field I work in (it’s regulatory in very complex area).

She told me straight away that nobody in the global business had any idea or knowledge about this regulated area.

She didn’t say a lot and quite clearly didn’t want to be in the interview. I can see why she wouldn’t want to do it.

Essentially they’re wanting to implement the function and roll it out but she doesn’t have a clue how much work is involved or how it needs to be done to ensure compliance.

I’m going to call the agent.

So sorry to hear that. I hope it can be rescheduled

Sorry but this is not correct. Disability is a protected characteristic in law. Under the Equality Act Section 6, disability is legally defined as a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long term adverse affect on the ability to carry out normal day to day activities. Claims of discrimination are only relevant if the employer asks questions about health conditions before a job offer is made. If the employer has formally offered the candidate a position, they are perfectly within their rights to ask questions about any health conditions in order to establish whether the candidate is fit to carry out the duties of the position offered, or if health insurance is a benefit of the employment, or, in certain circumstances, where things like good eyesight or not being colour blind are necessary for the nature of the job. Responsible employers also ask health questions to establish whether any reasonable adjustment is needed to accommodate the employee and if said employee does not disclose a condition, the employer is under no obligation to make that reasonable adjustment. The candidate has no legal obligation to answer the questions but if they exercise that choice the employer can withdraw the job offer accordingly. Also the candidate risks disciplinary action/termination if, at the time of recruitment, the employer has clarified that non disclosure of a health condition will result in such action. It’s important that if asked about any disability or health condition, if the employee opts to provide that information, that they do so truthfully and in full, as if the information they provide is later found to omit details or be misleading, disciplinary action could follow.

@Rosscameasdoody honey, without being too outing, it is literally my job to educate employers on the equality act and how it applies to disability. In addition, I have won awards for my disability awareness, advised governments both in the UK and internationally, worked as an advisor to major organisastions like Google, worked in HR, been a trade union official, taken several employers in employment tribunals, and been disabled myself for a long time.
People identify in different ways. Some are happy to say they are disabled, others might be happy jsut to say I'm dyslexic. Dyslexia btw is neither mental or physical but can have a long term impact on day to day activities. The definition is good to know but should be ignored in practice.
Remember the covid pandemic - many organisations got taken to court for demanding proof of exemption. Doctors would very often refuse to provide that proof.
I don't know what your job title is, I hope to god its not legal or HR, as if so, give me a shout and I'll work my magic at your workplace.

I worked for government in the employment sector for many years, and am physically disabled myself. The advice I gave is based on first hand experience and as far as I am aware the information I gave is current and correct. And I agree - the legal definition is neither here nor there, as you say, it’s about perception and how the disabled person views themselves.

@Rosscameasdoody so your opinion that I am incorrect is based on your own personal opinion, not any legal or HR knowledge or experience like I have?
Be more careful in future, someone could take you literally.

Also included in the contract was a clause for clawing back the recruitment fee plus VAT in the event I leave. This is about £15,000.

This is bollocks. Until a couple of years ago I worked in a role where I had sight of numerous job contracts, often at very high level. I've never heard of this.

Don't touch this job with a bargepole!

I didn’t say I didn’t have the background to provide the advice, I said it was based on my own experience. I have just double checked the info I gave at various sources, and it’s correct. You seem very patronising - what exactly do you think I have said that is incorrect ?

@Rosscameasdoody this part quoted below is where you are incorrect, you cannot simply withdraw the job offer where someone choses not to disclose, except in circumstances such as a blind person applying to be a taxi driver.
The Equality Act allows for exceptions in certain circumstances but the employer cannot just decide for themselves that their advertised job is exempt from the equality act.
As I said it is very concerning that you are making these statements and I'd be interested to know your sources. You work for the government as an employment advisor which says a lot - DWP by any chance? The same DWP who have been taken to employment tribunals for disability discrimination more than any other employer in the UK?

The candidate has no legal obligation to answer the questions but if they exercise that choice the employer can withdraw the job offer accordingly. Also the candidate risks disciplinary action/termination if, at the time of recruitment, the employer has clarified that non disclosure of a health condition will result in such action.

There is some good guidance here on pre-employment questionnaires: www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/updated_pre-employment_health_questions_for_job_applicants.pdf

"the employer can withdraw the job offer accordingly. Also the candidate risks disciplinary action/termination if, at the time of recruitment, the employer has clarified that non disclosure of a health condition will result in such action."

To be fair, all my recent (public sector) contracts have said something similar to this. It causes me a lot of stress as a disabled person.

That’s the point I was making. If a prospective employee has not formally accepted the job offer and subsequently refuses to provide requested health related information, the employer has grounds to withdraw the offer, and as you rightly point out, in practice, non disclosure can result in disciplinary action in certain circumstances.

@Rosscameasdoody yes, I think I worded that clumsily- that's what I have been told as well.

Non disclosure is not the same as refusing the answer health questions after being offered a job. Non disclosure and misleading information speak to honesty and the employer needs to show that dismissal in these circumstances relates to honesty and not disability. Refusal to answer health related questions has consequences, and for anyone with a disability it’s more advantageous to be honest - especially if they will require reasonable adjustment. If the employer is not aware of the disability they can’t adjust for it. And no not DWP.