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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I shouldn’t come out of the dentist crying and shaking.

115 replies

Bellabluea · 24/11/2022 16:20

Hi all. So I need an upper molar out. The dentist tried last week and could only get the bottom half out leaving 3 deep roots which it turns out are infected. He numbed me but I swear I felt so much I couldn’t let him. He gave me a course of antibiotics and I went back today. I took strong painkillers before I left and he numbed me apparently. I was anxious but I was assured it would be better after the antibiotics.

I feel like I’ve been assaulted. My body went into shakes and I started crying. I could feel him trying to pull out my tooth and the pain was horrendous. I kept grabbing his arm and he said I needed to let him and that I was numbed.
he tried a couple of times and I tried so hard to let him and be brave but I just couldn’t.
i left crying and drove home in shock.
DH has never seen me so traumatised and I am not soft. I have had children without pain relief and I’m not someone who is an anxious person.
The dental assistant kept giving me tissues and asking if I was alight. She looked really concerned but the dentist just came across as a bit irritated and said my anxiety was stopping me.
he did another X-ray at the end and said there was a deep infection which was why I felt something and I ran out of there with a promise of an appointment somewhere else for sedation.

I think I just needed to write it down. My reaction shocked me and my body just took over. I still can’t stop crying.

am I just being soft?

OP posts:
Oinkypig · 24/11/2022 23:32

Perhaps it might help to explain teeth are not “pulled” out the periodontal ligaments (tiny fibres) that attach/connect teeth to the jaw bone need to be broken and the only way to do that is to push the tooth in/up to the jaw. The pulling/leverage people keep talking about here just don’t help with tooth extraction, it just isn’t possible from an anatomy/physics point of view that a dentist put his foot on a chair to get more leverage.

I do definitely think another rubbish dentist could have come in to hold you still during a tricky extraction

TattiePants · 25/11/2022 00:14

@Bellabluea if you can get to Seaham, County Durham I’d recommend my dentist.

stevalnamechanger · 25/11/2022 00:26

You poor thing this sounds awful . I would go see another dentist that is more sensitive .

I've recently had some root canals done after being in so much pain I considered slamming my head in a door 😫

I saw Jose at www.therootcanalspecialist.co.uk/ , London privately ( he doesn't just do root canal ) and he was honestly incredible . Totally painless experience and very sensitive not rushed environment .

jennyofthenorth · 25/11/2022 00:47

sounds like my last experience getting 3 teeth pulled. I said I would never go back unless it was sedation (and I had a great dentist)

RobinHumphries · 25/11/2022 10:55

Oh just to correct another thing patients aren’t asleep during sedation. It is called conscious sedation because you are still awake during the procedure. However the drugs do make you drowsy and have an amnesiac effect so you forget you were in fact awake

WiddlinDiddlin · 25/11/2022 11:34

Articaine, its the future.

Nothing else works on me and when I finally started only using dentists who use articaine, I discovered I had NEVER up until that point, had a pain free filling or extraction.

This only happened after I had a brutal molar extraction where the nurse had to hold my shoulders and the dentist had to ask my permission to carry on despite my screaming - he wanted to stop and send me to hospital with my tooth half hanging out of my mouth, but I can't have GA or heavy sedation so the outcome for me would have been the same... just further prolonging the agony.

The adrenaline in the lidocaine plus if any of that has gone into the wrong place and so got into your blood stream direct rather than into the surrounding tissue.. yes that will make you shaky and likely to cry.

FolornLawn · 25/11/2022 12:12

Oinkypig · 24/11/2022 22:33

@ickky @Naunet
I mean how long do you think dentists arms are that they can kneel on someone’s chest and still reach the teeth?

It has not ever been possible for a human to kneel on a patients chest to get teeth out.

As for elbows, the first lesson in dental school taking teeth out is keep your arm as straight as possible to extract teeth, the more your arm bends the more difficult it is to get a tooth out. There can be some bruising post extraction but that is normal.

I'm not suggesting dentists kneel on anyone, but why do you say it's not physically possible? I don't get it. Surely if someone is lying down in front of you and they are side on it's easy to have one foot on the floor near their head and a knee on their torso?

Lollygaggle · 25/11/2022 13:55

FolornLawn · 25/11/2022 12:12

I'm not suggesting dentists kneel on anyone, but why do you say it's not physically possible? I don't get it. Surely if someone is lying down in front of you and they are side on it's easy to have one foot on the floor near their head and a knee on their torso?

Dental chairs do not go down that low , a knee on the torso would make it virtually impossible to get into the mouth and see what you are doing. It would make it physically impossible to take a tooth out , impossible to see what you are doing and would cause a lot damage to patients torso. A fully grown adults weight on one knee on your chest would cause significant damage and very few dentists would have the flexibility , balance or physique to be able to do it!

To take a tooth out you push, rather than pull a tooth. Both arms should be straight with one hand around gum and one on instrument to remove tooth. You do not pull a tooth until the last second when it is loose.

Bruising and swelling can be seen , particularly when removing lower wisdom teeth under general anaesthetic , around neck and down into chest area. This is because a general anaesthetic or sedation is used when a tooth is very difficult to get out and often requires extensive bone removal . The swelling and bruising goes downwards and stops where the muscles insert into the chest in some cases.

For any other surgical proceedure involving the face and bone removal you would not be surprised to have extensive bruising and swelling , eg nasal surgery , the bruising often spreads to the eyes and up into hairline and around the ears although none of these areas are involved in the surgery.

The nerve supply to the face is enormously complicated and peoples reaction to various drugs varies enormously as well, eg people with Ehler Danlos and hypermobility problems can be difficult to numb up . Add to this when someone is very nervous, in pain, tired and stressed the nerve gateways get overloaded and pressure starts to be perceived as pain.

very, very occasionally a tooth can have a "hot pulp" or other problem that means it is difficult to numb up. There are a variety of ways this can be over come but pain relief can be challenging in an environment that has five times as many nerve endings as the rest of your body .

A couple of end points
if you feel pain agree a signal with your dentist to stop. They can try different anaesthetics , give longer for them to take or , in extremis , refer you for sedation. However in most places unless you pay privately this will take months to come through even if you are in pain.

Sometimes going away , coming back after an anti inflammatory or even just time (in the case of "hot pulp" ) is enough to get you nice and numb .

sometimes a sedative approach is necessary but this will almost always involve a long wait unless private.

Antibiotics are never a first line approach , the first approach for a dental infection is to drain it , either through the tooth or by taking it out. Apart from anything else antibiotics cannot penetrate into a good collection of pus .

Rather like child birth , some people relish giving their horror stories . It is easy to think this is the norm when the reality is dentists take out teeth every day from the very young (the youngest I have done whilst awake with just an injection is a 3 year old) to the very old , from fit and healthy to very poorly and the vast majority of these extractions are painless and routine. However every person and every tooth is different and although you will feel pressure and hear a crunchy noise it should be possible to take a tooth out on anyone with no pain , but everyone may need a different approach.

In the end dentistry is unique in that dentists do microsurgery on one of the most sensitive parts of the body on a conscious patient . You need to have trust the dentist will do their best , you need to agree control ie hand signal to stop and what to do if things become uncomfortable .

ClownFaceMagoo · 25/11/2022 14:59

I can confirm with my last 2 extractions (pre adult braces) there was no pulling at all. She constantly checked I couldn’t feel any pain, but from the pressure it felt like she was pushing down and twisting, the crunching noise was a little weird then when it was loose she just lifted it out, it was less hassle than a filling tbh. I think everyone has heard the ‘I had the dentist kneeling on my chest’ story, my boss told me this story right before my extraction appointment, which was nice of him… I think it’s bollocks

mam0918 · 25/11/2022 16:04

figtrees · 24/11/2022 20:24

Yes I shoukd have been sure when I posted that there's plenty of a certain sort on here who would take that literally.

I meant when compared with other first world countries. Eg America and the rest of Europe. The standards of dental care in Europe are much much much higher than here. I've seen a lot of dentists, unfortunately. And the UK has been the worst by far. The best was an American specialist (certainly paid for it though).

And to the person who said op shouldn't complain and 'hates blame culture'. It's not fucking acceptable to be crying and in pain during surgery. Dentists are performing surgery. Just because you have decided that your own low standards would allow you to be treated like that doesn't mean anybody else should accept it.

Dentistry doesn't actually have to be painful. Caring and skilled dentists with access to proper equipment don't treat people like this.

What possible other way is there to take the statement that 'Nowhere else in the world' they would do that.

No one knows you specifically mean white/first world/middle class society when you phrase it as 'the world' because thats not what 'Nowhere else in the world' means.

Seems like some blinkered first world washing slipping out there.

mam0918 · 25/11/2022 16:37

Lollygaggle · 25/11/2022 13:55

Dental chairs do not go down that low , a knee on the torso would make it virtually impossible to get into the mouth and see what you are doing. It would make it physically impossible to take a tooth out , impossible to see what you are doing and would cause a lot damage to patients torso. A fully grown adults weight on one knee on your chest would cause significant damage and very few dentists would have the flexibility , balance or physique to be able to do it!

To take a tooth out you push, rather than pull a tooth. Both arms should be straight with one hand around gum and one on instrument to remove tooth. You do not pull a tooth until the last second when it is loose.

Bruising and swelling can be seen , particularly when removing lower wisdom teeth under general anaesthetic , around neck and down into chest area. This is because a general anaesthetic or sedation is used when a tooth is very difficult to get out and often requires extensive bone removal . The swelling and bruising goes downwards and stops where the muscles insert into the chest in some cases.

For any other surgical proceedure involving the face and bone removal you would not be surprised to have extensive bruising and swelling , eg nasal surgery , the bruising often spreads to the eyes and up into hairline and around the ears although none of these areas are involved in the surgery.

The nerve supply to the face is enormously complicated and peoples reaction to various drugs varies enormously as well, eg people with Ehler Danlos and hypermobility problems can be difficult to numb up . Add to this when someone is very nervous, in pain, tired and stressed the nerve gateways get overloaded and pressure starts to be perceived as pain.

very, very occasionally a tooth can have a "hot pulp" or other problem that means it is difficult to numb up. There are a variety of ways this can be over come but pain relief can be challenging in an environment that has five times as many nerve endings as the rest of your body .

A couple of end points
if you feel pain agree a signal with your dentist to stop. They can try different anaesthetics , give longer for them to take or , in extremis , refer you for sedation. However in most places unless you pay privately this will take months to come through even if you are in pain.

Sometimes going away , coming back after an anti inflammatory or even just time (in the case of "hot pulp" ) is enough to get you nice and numb .

sometimes a sedative approach is necessary but this will almost always involve a long wait unless private.

Antibiotics are never a first line approach , the first approach for a dental infection is to drain it , either through the tooth or by taking it out. Apart from anything else antibiotics cannot penetrate into a good collection of pus .

Rather like child birth , some people relish giving their horror stories . It is easy to think this is the norm when the reality is dentists take out teeth every day from the very young (the youngest I have done whilst awake with just an injection is a 3 year old) to the very old , from fit and healthy to very poorly and the vast majority of these extractions are painless and routine. However every person and every tooth is different and although you will feel pressure and hear a crunchy noise it should be possible to take a tooth out on anyone with no pain , but everyone may need a different approach.

In the end dentistry is unique in that dentists do microsurgery on one of the most sensitive parts of the body on a conscious patient . You need to have trust the dentist will do their best , you need to agree control ie hand signal to stop and what to do if things become uncomfortable .

Now I am not entering the knee on chest debate because I dont know and while granted Im a medical professional but not an anastesiologist/dentist so speaking from a patients point of view but I have never encountered this.

I have had dental sedation with no bruising/side effect (never again the dentist did the wrong tooth, it was meant to be bottom right he did top left) and more so I have had facial reconstruction in the past with little swelling or brusing (no more than expected no where near my chest) and I also lost bone in the surgery I was on about in my previous post but no bruising/swelling (although I lost bone and gum).

I have had many surgeries and found bruising exceptionally rare, certainly not an effect of the anastesia like a previous comment said.

I have also been prescribed antibiotic for EVERY tooth infection I have ever had, its common. I usually ask for the tooth to be opened and LEFT open as that relieves the pressure/pain but antibiotic are standard at all 5 dentists I have been a patient at and the hospital have prescribed them (and I do have resistance from a chronic kidney infection, its in my notes but Im still prescribed antibiotics I just cant have that 1 type of antibiotic which is no different from not being able to have the one Im allergic too).

Most of my dental issues have no been horror stories pain wise (even the dentist that got the wrong fucking tooth it didnt 'hurt') but I have encountered some bloody awful bedside manners along the way.

You also have to accept that historically things where different, there is an old lady at my church who was telling me she got dentures at 12 because the dentist insisted on pulling all her adult teeth as they came in and that was standard back then (preemptive and easier to get full denture because they didnt do partials/bridges). No reason to believe shes lying to try and scare people out of going to the dentist, she really not she just a sweet old lady relaying her life story.

I also think with so many people giving the same experiance you can't claim they're all 'telling horror stories' or 'mistaken'... its not a conspirancy or an attack on you to recognise that a lot of dentist do not operate correctly and this argumentitive attitude of we are right and the patient doesn't understand is why that happens.

Lollygaggle · 25/11/2022 16:47

The chief medical officer of England has said that the biggest health care problem is very soon going to be antibiotic resistance and it will be apocalyptic . It will make covid look like a walk in the park.

To this end all health care professionals, including dentists , sign up to antibiotic stewardship . We are audited to make sure antibiotics are not over prescribed and guidelines are published to make sure we do not , routinely prescribe antibiotics. Indeed the research says antibiotic prescription does not have a better effect on pain than surgical intervention eg draining tooth or taking tooth out. See pages 13,14 here cgdent.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Antimicrobial-Prescribing-in-Dentistry-2020-online-version.pdf

To put this into context in a four man practice over three months I would be surprised to see antibiotic prescriptions issued into double figures.

Some individuals, for various reasons , may need antibiotics but for the vast majority of dental problems , for the vast majority of patients not only should antibiotics not be issued it is against guidelines and irresponsible to do so.

figtrees · 25/11/2022 19:50

mam0918 · 25/11/2022 16:04

What possible other way is there to take the statement that 'Nowhere else in the world' they would do that.

No one knows you specifically mean white/first world/middle class society when you phrase it as 'the world' because thats not what 'Nowhere else in the world' means.

Seems like some blinkered first world washing slipping out there.

I said the world as an expression. I hate how some people on here can't accept any nuance and are pedantic to the point of being redundant. Its off topic and a quality most people find laughable.

I've been to dentists in very poor underdeveloped countries, in very rural areas of those countries. And they were better than the nhs dentists I've seen in the UK. I suppose is what I meant to say. I have experience of dentists in lots of countries. And the UK has been the stand out worst. I do now go overseas for treatment, even a filling if I needed one. I do not trust any of the dentists here after constant failures.

CottageEmo · 25/11/2022 20:04

Lollygaggle · 25/11/2022 16:47

The chief medical officer of England has said that the biggest health care problem is very soon going to be antibiotic resistance and it will be apocalyptic . It will make covid look like a walk in the park.

To this end all health care professionals, including dentists , sign up to antibiotic stewardship . We are audited to make sure antibiotics are not over prescribed and guidelines are published to make sure we do not , routinely prescribe antibiotics. Indeed the research says antibiotic prescription does not have a better effect on pain than surgical intervention eg draining tooth or taking tooth out. See pages 13,14 here cgdent.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Antimicrobial-Prescribing-in-Dentistry-2020-online-version.pdf

To put this into context in a four man practice over three months I would be surprised to see antibiotic prescriptions issued into double figures.

Some individuals, for various reasons , may need antibiotics but for the vast majority of dental problems , for the vast majority of patients not only should antibiotics not be issued it is against guidelines and irresponsible to do so.

Scientists have been saying this for decades… Nobody listens. It is truly terrifying.

tryanotherone123 · 28/11/2022 17:13

BakedTattie · 24/11/2022 22:04

If it helps, it was £300 to have the root removed, but they gave me lots and lots of lovely pain killers to take away and antibiotics too. I’m in Scotland though. Not sure if area makes a difference to price

I'm in a similar situation. Do you mind my asking, how did you find a private dentist to do this? Was it a specialist?

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