Local high school pupils and behaviour - AIBU to expect more?

[Elderemo]

I live in a fairly large town with two high schools close to the town centre. As a result most of the pupils pass through the town on their way to and from school. I work in the centre and pass through myself several times a day.

School A has a strict behaviour policy and for the most part the pupils behave. I expect general high school stuff from them which is fine but they don't cause problems. There was one issue with a pupil causing damage, I reported it to the school and it was dealt with.

School B has pupils who cause a lot of problems. Constant damage (today a group of them were smashing a cleaning in progress sign against a shop window), verbal abuse to anyone who asks them to stop, running into shops and knocking down displays. It's generally the same group every day. I report all of the incidents to the school because even though it is out of school time they are in uniform and I was brought up to believe in uniform you represent the school.

Unfortunately the school don't care. There's no other way to put it. They asked me to film the incidents which I do, and send onto them. Nothing is ever done. I asked for assurance that they are at least speaking to the pupils and they can't give me that. I even spoke to the neighbourhood policing team after seeing a child smash a large glass window and walk away laughing. They told me to speak to the school.

AIBU to expect the school to take some sort of action to address this?

Tbh it's starts with bad parenting. Schools are probably battling the behaviour aswell .

You’ve reported it and done your bit. I’m surprised you’ve seen so many things to report to the point you’ve contacted two local schools - I don’t think I’ve ever had the need to report to any of my local schools.

In future I’d phone the police/report to security if you see anything dangerous, and ignore anything else. Are these acts aimed at you/do you work where they are being done? I’m just confused how you’re seeing so much of it.

Why is it the schools responsibility more than the parents when they aren’t actually in school?

Smashing a large glass window is criminal damage. The police telling you to talk to the school is absurd. Talk to the police.

Well I suppose op can’t exactly contact the parents. The only thing she knows is where they are at school.

But to me smashing shop windows open is a police matter and not phoning the school. I would expect the shop have already reported it though.

It sounds like you’ll have to embarrass the school into action. Blur out the kids faces then post the videos and tag the school on social media.

There is only so much schools can do about pupil behaviour outside of school regardless of if they are in uniform or not. Teachers can't be physically monitoring their behaviour outside of school premises, all they can do is speak to parents and reiterate the standards of behaviour required.

Point out to the police that just because someone is school age does not mean they can wash their hands of it! School are not a substitute for adequate policing and we are really fed up of hearing 'let the school deal with it' just because a student attends our school.

What do you think they can do though about behaviour on the way to and from school? Walk all the pupils home? A lot of parents don't even seem bothered when they are contacted about poor behaviour inside the school never mind outside of it. Criminal damage is a police matter, not an schools issue.

I even spoke to the neighbourhood policing team after seeing a child smash a large glass window and walk away laughing. They told me to speak to the school.

I think you’re mad at the wrong institution- this is definitely a neighbourhood policing issue and I’d be a total pain in their ass until they spoke with the school.

It’s a police issue, if the behaviour is criminal and regular and in the same location then the police need to step up. School is in a difficult position: they can’t identify the pupils involved when you report so their only real option is to take action towards all pupils by lecturing in assembly (which I expect they do) of sanctioning whole year groups (cue MN thread: AIBU to be absolutely fuming that my good DC is being sanctioned because of the actions of other pupils?)

I see so much of it because the town centre itself is small and I spend most of my day there - either on the school run myself or working. The school are located on two roads on the way out of town.

The smashed window was a vacant shop and shopping centre security aren't around first thing.

I've reported it repeatedly because the schools own behaviour policy covers the pupils travelling to or from school and they are meant to be sanctioned.

It's not a bad town to live in. It really isn't. And this isn't just kids being kids. Over the summer the police took some action by putting an exculsion zone in place most evenings but now they're back at school they're just deferring to them to deal with it.

Oh and they're not aimed at my workplace as we have already barred the pupils unless they're coming in with an adult. There's just a massive amount of anti social behaviour in the town centre itself.

Standards have fallen so far. In my day (a long time ago now), when you were wearing school uniform you represented the school. You weren't allowed to eat in the street, and if a prefect saw you without your correct uniform you were in trouble.
The position is similar where I live. Two secondaries, one with exemplary behaviour from the students and one where the students are pushing each other off pavements into the road and dodging heavy traffic. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about a fatal accident one day.
The parents have a role to play, as do the school and the police. The trouble is, a lot of parents don't care, the school's have very little authority and the police are under resourced.

How do you know the pupils in question aren't being sanctioned for their behaviour though? A school cannot tell you details about actions taken about individual pupils. Schools are limited to what they can do punishment wise and sometimes even exclusion isn't enough to prevent repeat incidents as the messages still need to be reinforced at home by parents.

“School A has a strict behaviour policy and for the most part the pupils behave.”

“School B has pupils who cause a lot of problems.”

YANBU.
However, School A will be chosen by parents who buy into that kind of thing and are happy for their child to have a detention if the shirt is not tucked in or is late for 5 minutes etc.

School B will be chosen by parents of the opposite ilk, or just allocated, because said parents have no choice, cannot move, are at the mercy of landlords etc.

So I do not think it is just the schools to blame. It will be a combination of factors.
However, I fully agree that kids out of control are everyone’s problem - police, parents, school and the local community. Actually complaining a lot about these kids is doing them a favour. They just need someone to step in and care enough about them to call them out on it. Rather than everyone washing their hands off them.

If action was being taken in school surely this wouldn't still be happening every single day?

But it would still be happening. They can sanction students, but some simply won’t care. Being out in isolation/on report at school won’t stop them doing things after school time.

There's just a massive amount of anti social behaviour in the town centre itself.

This is a community policing issue.
Get a campaign going with other residents, shopkeepers etc.

My children’s school stopped them going out at lunchtime. The local Co op also had restrictions in place for children not accompanied by adults.
I would post on social media with the uniform clearly displayed. It might shamed someone into action. I would also report to the police. Once you are at secondary school you are responsible for your own actions.

If its pupils who couldn't care less and have parents who feel the same then yes, I'm afraid it would.

I work in Hammersmith and a certain pupils of a certain acdemdy thought it would be fun to spray a three year two five year old and two nine year olds in the park with 5heir drinks . Emailed the school and nothing . I know it's not the schools fault for the outside behaviour of pupils but these l children were in uniform.
But then we often go to the park next the school before the child I look after goes to hers and the teachers always seem to be yelling at their pupils in the playground

Yes, it is - police are keen to fob such things off to the school because it's easier for them. If it were the same behaviour at weekends, they wouldn't just fob it off to the parents!

There's another thread where people including staff in schools are discussing how the pandemic has made children's behaviour (at both secondary and primary level) worse.
I think that schools have little power here. They can lecture the kids at assembly and hope that parents support positive behaviour in general but I think that this is a social services and the police matter and they are so under resourced that they only deal with extreme behaviour.

At my place someone would have come to see you or would have phoned you back. We’ve sanctioned kids banned from local shops