AIBU to expect the tenants to turn the heating up?

[LadyMaine]

I've owned my 3 bed Victorian house for 7 years. There was a little bit of damp in the downstairs bay window but nothing serious.

I moved for work at end of August this year and rented it out. Within a few weeks the tenants (3 adults & dog) started complaining of damp and mould. When I went to inspect the house was very cold.
They said they are worried about high heating bills. I do understand this but have told them they really need to turn the heating up.

The boiler is in full working order as are the extractor fans in the kitchen and bathroom.
I installed new double glazed windows throughout when I bought the house. It also has a damp course installed.

Now they are complaining that there is black mould and that one of the tenants' asthma is getting worse.
What can I do to get them to turn the heating up?

Houses need heating. We have lived in our current House for 5 years. The last 4 years we had the Central Heating on 70% of the time in Winter and had no mold anywhere. This year due to the cost of living have only put CH 3 or 4 times and I am noticing mold in 1 of the bedrooms. The heating has been switched on today as I don't want expense of decorating or damage to health.

Most mould/ damp issues caused by occupier lifestyle. An older property with some slight damp in the bay window (coldest most exposed, possibly single brick part of the room) is not uncommon. Move in, don't heat, dry clothes in rooms, don't open windows, the increased water in the air, finds the coldest place and condenses, providing mould an opportunity. Cleaning it with milton is a good method, but will come back without changes. The causes of non occupier damp/mould is things like defective brick work, leaking down pipes, damp proof failure.

Yes, maybe the OP could come back and explain exactly what they mean by the house having Damp when it was rented out?
That would help to clarify things……

In that specific case did I not read there was a kichen with no window or extractor? That alone does put the landlord in the dock IMO, even though I generally think mold can be a problem because of tenants as much as landlords. Though that's a very bad case, in general I think it's a lot to do with people simply not knowing what they should be doing- landlords and tenants.

Last week 90% of posts on a thread were threatening posters who suggested that mould in a property was the fault of tenants and not the landlord. This week 90%of posts think it's the tenants fault a property has mould. Apparently, if a council owns the property its their fault, and if an individual person owns it then its the tenants fault.

So much hypocrisy on MN... so is it the case that you need the tenants to die before it's the landlords fault. FWIIW I have a victorian house over 4 floors, even the cellar is dry and I have little heating on because (at the top of the pennines) it isn't yet that cold most of the time. The OP knew there was mould before it was let. They let it anyway...

Yes I think so @BlueMongoose

The problem is that you've had a DPC and modern (plastic I assume?) Windows installed onto an old building which needs to be able to breath! Probably modern plaster/insulation and concrete used on it too.

From a tenants perspective, buying them a dehumidifier would help or lowering rent on the basis they start to heat it.

From your perspective, research how to properly care for an old building instead of using modern materials on old buildings, and therefore adding to the risk of damp. You've been conned if you were sold on a DPC with the idea it would help the damp in a Victorian property.

Agree with this too!

We own a very old property and still have single glazed sash windows. Expensive in some ways but it’s much, much better for the house. Never had a problem with mould and we’re certainly not people who have the heating on much. Owning an old property means understanding how to care for it.

I live in a Victorian terrace. We’ve always had a small bit of mould in the corner or our bedroom. I clean it and paint it but it comes back. It’s the corner of the house and an outside wall, my Dad actually works for Environmental Health and he said it’s nothing to worry about, he said every house will have it’s coldest spot. We just need to keep on top of it with ventilation and heating. I can’t really afford the heating on as much as we have it on, I’m on maternity leave but at the end of the day it’s my house and I know that if I let it spread it will cost me money in the long run.

Tenants obviously don’t have that motivation. I think you need new tenants, or you cut their rent if you can afford it.

People on here hate Landlords OP. I must say I’ve had some awful ones but you’re not being unreasonable here. They need to heat and ventilate the property.

We took over one house in August- in a hot summer. The house was damp, and despite the fact iot was August, it felt like living in a fridge; damp air makes a house feel cold even when it's not. It primarily needed ventilation to get it almost too dry, though it took about 6 months. The previous occupants had not ventilated it adequately, had been using an old gas fire, they had no extractor in the kitchen or the bathroom, the cooker hood was totally useless and they boiled a lot of food. A place damp in August can still be a lifestyle thing.

Your house has a mould problem. It's not possible to keep it completely clean and safe, even with effort. Live in it yourself if you're happy but it wouldn't be suitable for a business to use as a letting property.

From your perspective, research how to properly care for an old building instead of using modern materials on old buildings, and therefore adding to the risk of damp. You've been conned if you were sold on a DPC with the idea it would help the damp in a Victorian property.

Most people don't understand this, and then are so surprised to have damp and mould problems.

I don't think that's very fair, unless you can point to the same person making different judgements. IMO it's a bit of both- landlords should see to it that there is ventilation in place to be used, tenants should use it. If either fail in that, you'll get damp.

You've completely made everything in your post up.

OP only said there was one minor case of DAMP not mould when she left. I've lived in a lot of houses, never been one where there isn't a tiny spot (usually close to windows, as this one was) of damp.

OP didn't move out herself until the end of August so tenants couldn't have complained (depending on whether 'a few weeks' means 3-6), until the end of September, early October.

Nobody seems to have complained about any sort of 'disrepair' (which is completely unrelated to damp/mould), indeed OP confirms it has working boiler, extraction fans, double glazing etc.

Reading comprehension not your strong point, or is it just more fun to answer completely different made up scenarios?

Everyone suggesting that people shouldn't let out any properties that could possibly become susceptible to mould if not heated (i.e....all of them), or are in any condition other than perfect show home standard - you do know there is already a rental crisis? Obviously all homes should be of a reasonable living standards, but in reality some houses are hard to heat. Some are poorly ventilated. Some could do with a bit of DIY/a repaint. Some have terrible soundproofing. Very few people's homes are perfect! At some point the occupier (whether owner or tenant) has to either do what they can to mitigate the not-perfect bits, accept them, or move!

Living in period houses comes with a certain cost. In this instance it is keeping it warm and dry. I have always had old houses and I have always had to watch the moisture levels regarding mould. OP needs to kill any mould currently there and give the tenants a pointer towards websites that give information about how to care for a period property. If the tenants are not prepared to take proper care of your property then ask them to find alternative housing.

I think properly old houses tend to have ventilation and draughts built in, then we insulate and double glaze and get mould. You do have to keep on top of moisture. For me I need to Karcher the shower screen and windows. 1 hour heating a day and I run a woodstove when I’m home. Otherwise I’d get condensation mould too.

The tenants need to heat the home/ keep humidity down. I’d give notice if you can.

I think it’s more likely there will be a lot of chancers using it as an excuse to not pay their rent and referring to the incident. Are you really so naive to imagine there arent lots of tenants who won’t take huge advantage of this court case?

Many many homeowners live with damp - it’s just that they are more likely to take measures to deal with it - such as turning the heating on or buying a dehumidifier. My ds who is 21 lived in a rented house share with a few mates and when they started getting mould on the walls they cleaned it with mould remover and clubbed together to buy a dehumidifier- which sorted the problem.

Some people I guess just get on with things and don’t look to others to blame for all the problems in their life. The tenants could sort the mould by turning their heating on - it’s not the LL’s fault if they can’t afford to do this. It’s akin to me opening my windows all day then complaining it’s cold!

I'd see if the tenants would let me inspect, see where the damp/mould is and if its anywhere EXCEPT that window you know about... give them a detailed instruction sheet on how to run the property to avoid mould.

I have come across SO many people who have absolutely no idea how the science behind it works and are doing things (drying really soggy laundry, all day every day, never opening windows, intentionally blocking air bricks/vents, never using the extractor fans in kitchens/bathrooms, rarely heating the property) that make it much much worse with zero clue they're part of the problem.

If you rent a period property, theres a good chance that property will need a bit more management day to day than a new build modern property. THere is also a good chance something Victorian is going to have high ceilings and cost more to heat than something modern.

I'd also make it very clear that if they are causing damp/mould other than in that known spot, by mis-managing the property, that won't be considered 'wear and tear' and they will be paying to repair it. Much of this lack of understanding is simply that they've never had to, because its never been their property to understand!

MN at its finest
Thread 1- competitive under heating- we wrap up in blankets, hats gloves, it's not -10 yet heating isn't going on yet
Thread 2 - tenants not putting heating on- evict them they are disrespectful.
😁

So if tenants want to stay warm and don't ventilate enough to protect the house fabric doing so, then the landlord will sell up and there's another rental lost. Of course, you might be ready to buy too, and cut a deal.

How?

The only cure for" lifestyle" created mould (which this is) is to put the heating on and ventilate. Dehumidifiers will also help but don't tackle the root of the problem.

I have a very old house. We have the heating on at a low level and leave the top of the sash windows cracked open 1cm. This prevents mould. We had terrible mould problems when we moved in before we realised this.

IIWY, I’d go round with a decorating kit. Give it a clean up with bleach, see if you can seal the damp with something, repaint with anti mould paint. I’m doing similar in my bathroom at the moment.

and see if you can find a leaflet about preventing lifestyle-related mould to print out and give them. That was the Enviro Health officer’s response when he came to our flat in an older building. And he wasn’t that wrong actually. The mould was really bad though, a flatmate was coughing up a lung and I got an eye infection trying to clean some possessions that had got mouldy. But still, EH thought it was a user issue mainly and little could be done.

a friend though ending up settling a claim with their tenant and ended up paying £2k because some clothing they’d stored down the back of a sofa went mouldy.

You need to buy a dehumidifier and instruct the tenants to run it constantly, and empty its tank when full. It's a cheap fix to a problem that is going to cost you a lot of money if nobody does anything about it.

What does it say in the lease about responsibility of the tenants to prevent damage to the house?

We own a rental flat where we have had similar issues. Our previous tenants had mould and we installed a humidifier and repainted. However it was obvious they never put the heating on. After they moved out, our new tenant heats the flat properly and there are no issues with mould.

However following the latest ruling, it now appears to be solely the responsibility of the landlord and the tenant can do no wrong.

I think it’s more likely there will be a lot of chancers using it as an excuse to not pay their rent and referring to the incident.

I think that's unlikely given the boy's family continued to pay rent throughout, up until and including his death. Recent article here shows people in similar circumstances still paying rent

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/19/we-are-treated-like-dogs-tenants-in-damp-uk-homes-left-gasping-for-air?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other