AIBU to expect the tenants to turn the heating up?

[LadyMaine]

I've owned my 3 bed Victorian house for 7 years. There was a little bit of damp in the downstairs bay window but nothing serious.

I moved for work at end of August this year and rented it out. Within a few weeks the tenants (3 adults & dog) started complaining of damp and mould. When I went to inspect the house was very cold.
They said they are worried about high heating bills. I do understand this but have told them they really need to turn the heating up.

The boiler is in full working order as are the extractor fans in the kitchen and bathroom.
I installed new double glazed windows throughout when I bought the house. It also has a damp course installed.

Now they are complaining that there is black mould and that one of the tenants' asthma is getting worse.
What can I do to get them to turn the heating up?

But it is absolutely is the case that they are refusing to put the heating on so they are causing the issue entirely. Any health issues resulting from this could easily be resolved by using adequate heating.

The op can’t do anything to rectify a situation caused by their actions. However much you might despise landlords they can’t be blamed for everything. The tenants have to take some small iota of responsibility for their own health.

@SchoolQuestionnaire

Please tell me how the tenant could have caused damp that was highlighted in the surveyors report over 8yrs earlier? Damp that the OP admits they did nothing to repair at all and just lived with it. Damp that is undoubtedly worse due to over 8yrs of neglect all happening BEFORE the tenants moved into the property?

And no, turning the heat up will cause the mould to grow & spread faster. It’s not going to cure penetrating damp that has been a known issue for almost a decade.

The OP can carry out the repairs to the damp in the bay windows causing all of this.

I do not despise landlords, I just think it is hilarious that many on here think that a tenant with asthma who could literally die from the mould has no incentive to do anything to prevent the mould. The tenant is most likely doing everything they reasonably can. The facts are that the OP let the house with a known damp issue that she has ignored for the better part of a decade instead of having it dealt with. It is now bad enough to cause mould. But the OP and you would rather blame the tenant than look objectively at the facts.

It is perfectly true. If you neglect penetrating damp as the OP has done, mould will start to grow internal to the window frames and walls. It takes years, but eventually that mould will surface and then be visible on walls and around the windows. 8+ yrs is more than enough time to reach that threshold. And wiping it away is futile because it keeps coming back due to the walls themselves being constantly damp.

We don't know exactly what the damp issue was though, people use the word to cover all sorts of issues. I did suggest that the OP got a builder in to check out the current situation, to see if the problem has worsened. However I see nothing wrong with the tenant attempting to heat and ventilate. I'm not a landlord, I have just seen so many tenants insist that they are not causing the issues who then move and, voila, the issues start in their new home. And so it continues.

Paint can actually make a difference too. Parents swear by acrylic paint - more pricey but washable and mould doesn't grow on it.

I agree, the OP needs to get the damp in the bay windows sorted. It’s a known issue that was bad enough to be written in the surveyors report when she bought the place. It has to be much worse by now.

I am sure the tenant is doing some heating and ventilating as their life depends on it. The OP has assumed they’re not based on a 10min visit.

I find it fascinating how locals are in massive denial about the humidity, weather and house conditions and don't know how to deal with them.

Nearly every house I encountered in UK had some damp issue. They are usually very easy to control if you use common sense and basic knowledge one would think people growing up in it would have. I grew up in country with less humidity and even we know these basics.

But no, suggestion of doing that is some kind of abuse by landlord. God forbid someone is expected to heat and air like the rest of the world.🙄

At the end of the day, you can’t force them to put the heating on and they’ve told you they can’t afford to pay for it. You need to decide on a few things.

1. Can you afford to be a landlord?
2. Are these the right tenants, should you serve them with notice to leave?
3. If they leave, can you raise the rent so that it includes gas/electricity. Might be risky as they might just use as much as they want and end up costing you loads
4. If you still want to be a landlord, could you sell and buy a smaller place? Maybe a far better insulated new build?

That’s not what is happening here. The LL and many posters are assuming the tenants lack common sense, lack basic knowledge and have no incentive to mitigate mould on the basis of a ten minute visit when she thought the house was cold plus heaps of prejudice and likely a dash of classism. Those working class that can only rent, they are so thick aren’t they? Obviously they are mentally deficient otherwise they’d have done better in school, have higher paid jobs and own not rent.

She is therefore assuming the tenant is never ventilating, are creating excess moisture, and are never heating the home and are doing nothing to fight the mould.

She is ignoring the fact that she let the house with a known damp issue that she has neglected for almost a decade. It’s much more convenient and fashionable to blame the tenants. Much like it was the done thing to complain “can’t find any good servants” today it is “I can’t find good tenants..”

That’s what I and others are objecting to, the assumption the tenant has caused damp and mould when the facts are a damp issue was identified by a surveyor over 8yrs ago and the OP has done fuck all to fix it. She’s now let a damp house and her prejudice against tenants has biased her into assuming they have caused damp…and your own prejudice and classism has you rushing to agree with her and soothe her with your own stories of nightmare tenants.

I dont dispute nightmare tenants exist, but there’s no evidence these tenants are not good tenants.

Some tips from the Sunday Times

And however you might despise tenants they can't be blamed for everything. The LL have to take some small iota of responsibility for their own investment. No?

In this case I think it's clear the tenant haven't caused the issue, there was in issue before then moved in.
The fact is we live in a wet, cold country and a lot of houses are very badly built or badly modernised.
The issue isn't really with the tenants or the LLs, it's the houses, they should come with an instruction leaflet. If LLs are happy to rent such houses they should be happy to give very clear instructions from the outset and to be constantly on duty to patch things up.
I don't know any other wet and cold country were renting/letting is quite so problematic.

Article actually references Mumsnet

Wow. Once I agree fully with MN. HG spray is amazing but brutal

Most houses in uk have some damp issue. Most do not have mould though. If there was no mould before tenants moved in it is very much logical assumption they are making it worse. Including the admission of not heating really.

While OP should get builder in to check it, there is absolutely nothing on here to suggest it is not the tenants causing mould.

Not true. There was no mould when op lived in the house. You need to heat and ventilate houses to keep mould at bay.

No mould in all the time the Op said they lived in the house. Yet mould and increased damp , according to OP, managed to appear in just the few weeks since August. It doesn't add up really.

You only need look at the threads here to see that practically no one has their heating on in the few weeks following August.

Though OP doesn't say they don't have their heating on at all, and she wants it turning up.

In older houses you have to put heat on otherwise you will get cold. It’s often in contracts

I think OP needs to get some proper advice. My parents rent out a (non damp!) house, not me, but there's been lots of inaccuracies spouted on the thread by the many landlords who have posted (so many in AIBU!) and silliness as above.

And also tenants, like everyone else, will heat their houses to the extend that they can afford, no less and no more. Very naive to think they will be sympathetic to your investment not being quite so lucrative and fork out for more heating to keep LLs in the money. I know, life is tough isn't it?

My old rental contract had a clause saying I would heat the property during the winter months to prevent a build-up of condensation which could lead to mould, and also to have the bathroom extraction vent on when showering/bathing.

Not much help now, but perhaps on a new contract you could have a similar clause added?

This is a bizarre post! If you don't heat a house, mould often appears, especially in an older house. It is a common problem. That's not the landlords fault. It's just science!

Well if the tenants don't sufficiently heat the property it will get mouldy and the tenants will suffer the health consequences won't they!

And that will not be the fault of the LL.

YANBU - these houses need to be kept warm so not sure exactly what they’re expecting to happen

and people wonder why landlords are hated....

Landlords aren’t hated except by the odd MNer and Guardian swallowers.

Expecting tenants not to contribute to a damp problem is worthy of hate this is what old houses do and they’d have the same problems in they’d bought.

If the house is a crap house, funnily enough the tenants are more likely to go to a better property and suffer no ill heath at all.
And the LL with the crap house they won't sort out is back to square one.

You could have something similar to this fitted- www.nuaire.co.uk/residential/positive-input-ventilation. Everyone I know who has had one fitted swears it has made a huge difference to the amount of condensation in the house. They are set up in the loft, so generally tenants can't turn them off.

In addition (or potentially instead of), you could have the extractor fans changed to ones that have a trickle setting so they continuously extract a small amount- we have these in our bathrooms and utility rooms and our house is generally not damp, even though we dry washing indoors. We have these- www.internet-electrical.co.uk/ventilation/continuous-running-extractor-fans/greenwood-unity-continuous-running-fans/greenwood-airvac-cv2gip-unity-ipx5-100mm-smart-continuous-running-mev-fan-with-humdistat-adjustable-timer?gclid=Cj0KCQiAg_KbBhDLARIsANx7wAwFR9NSJod8cQ6AV6vyzHIYBLGNzMlRxBOp5Ku9POjNXyEoj9lRC5waAi1IEALw_wcB. I have set them up with overrun timer and with a humidistat.

Both these options are very cheap to run, so better than a dehumidifier as a lot of tenants might not use these if they fear high energy bills.