AIBU to think anyone involved in teaching children should be BDS checked?

[requestingsunshine]

This is a childs sports club. Not volunteers but a paid for club and not linked to school or anything.

Am I right in thinking that anyone involved in the coaching of the DC, especially when they are left in sole charge of the DC should be DBS checked?

By paying cash in hand this man is avoiding having any responsibility towards his employees such as employer's National Insurance and pension contributions, or even providing a paper trail for his employees for HMRC by paying via banking - so presumably he thinks he has zero responsibility in other areas such as safeguarding too. It's no way to run a business, and especially one engaging children.

I would not send my child to these classes and I would be seeking information about their safeguarding policies.

@requestingsunshine anyone training, coaching, driving or supervising children are classed as being engaged in a regulated activity and should have enhanced DBS. If they aren't doing any of these - like a cleaner or admin staff - but working in a specific list of institutions such as a school, nursery, care home etc on a regular basis they may still need DBS. The organisation or club are responsible for ensuring staff have relevant DBS checks and qualifications so you need to speak to the owner ASAP and query who has current valid DBS - you can't just have anyone unchecked coaching because 'he seems like a nice bloke'

Safeguarding should be the number one priority for anyone working with children and if you are concerned or think they are allowing unchecked adults to work unsupervised with children please report to your Local Safeguarding Children Board.

I'm not completely confident in DBS checks, although it does offer a better level of protection, of course.
I work in education and had an enhanced DBS check before I was hired (if anything shows up, the job offer is rescinded). However, now I just need to declare if I commit any offences that would be relevant, I won't have another DBS check as long as I work there. The initial screening is very good, but you're then trusting that people will declare any relevant post-DBS offences, and not all do.

I needed an enhanced check to help at the school disco so I'd definitely expect it for paid activities.

You seem unhappy with the dance school, so find a different school!

If you mention the type of dance, I'm sure someone can recommend qualified teachers in your area.

The thing with DBS checks is it only lists offences and if you've never been caught..............

Don't disagree with you @Loics but at the very least you need to know someone's history before you let them lose on children unsupervised!! Please don't ignore it OP - I don't just mean remove your own child if they don't have correct check in place but report and make sure other parents are aware so they can also keep their children safe.

Quite.

And whilst it's a different thread, this is another concern with Self ID/changing birth certificates and other legal documents. There are definitely still ways to hide.

OP you've had plenty of people telling you that there should be DBS checks done.
The cash in hand/volunteer situation is a red herring although you may wish to report it separately for the sake of the workers/volunteers.
In your situation I would ask directly if these have been done, by speaking to the man in charge
If he says yes, I would ask to see them
Anything less than 'yes, we are all checked and I'm happy to show you the certificates' and I would ask in a public place eg their facebook page
I would then contact local safeguarding officer as detailed above.

And I would start looking for another dance class immediately.

I'm a referee for youth football and never left alone with the children, yet I have to be DBS checked.

I am making the point that it ISN'T a legal requirement

However, now I just need to declare if I commit any offences that would be relevant, I won't have another DBS check as long as I work there.

I would have thought that the police are responsible for informing your employer of any relevant information. My school also does DBS checks every 3 years on all staff.

And you are WRONG in making that point.

It's the law that employees working unsupervised with children must undergo an enhanced DBS check. It's also the law that volunteers whose duties involve specific contact with children must undergo an enhanced DBS Check. It's still important to get a DBS check when parents are present to oversee their children.

If he says yes, I would ask to see them

Parents don't have a right to see them.

Certificate information should be kept securely, in lockable, non-portable, storage containers with access strictly controlled and limited to those who are entitled to see it as part of their duties.

From:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/handling-of-dbs-certificate-information/handling-of-dbs-certificate-information

I'm going to confess I've only read OP's posts, not others so apologies if I've missed something or I'm repeating questions.
OP do you know for sure that certain members of staff don't hold DBS checks? If only guessing, what makes you suspect this?
And forgive me if this sounds a bit direct, but if you're that worried, why are you letting your DC attend that particular dance class? Why not do some research into one that is actually fully registered with fully DBS-checked staff?
Can you not contact someone who runs the dance competions and ask them what is required to enter the competitions and how do you go about finding out if your dance school fits the criteria?
I'm pretty sure it would all be quite simple to find out, even if you outright ask the dance school owner/manager. Have you done this?

Even if they are you never know who is teaching your kids. The local kids football team that does a holiday club every school holidays is ran by the biggest coke head I know. He's a functioning addict and does other drugs to but comes across lovely.

I am not wrong, and you haven't answered my question - at what point does it become "formal"? Look at my example and say. YOu can't - and we have no idea at what point along that continuum this activity is

With the dancing I'm familiar with, your dance school has to have at least one registered and qualified teacher in order to compete in competitions run by that governing body. It's possible that the teacher is not a qualified teacher - therefore they couldn't enter their pupils.

This appears to relate to dancing in the UK.

www.eada.co.uk/

This is from their website too.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-parents-and-carers-on-safeguarding-children-in-out-of-school-settings/keeping-children-safe-during-community-activities-after-school-clubs-and-tuition-questions-to-help-parents-and-carers-choose-out-of-school-settings#what-to-do-if-you-have-concerns

OP do you know for sure that certain members of staff don't hold DBS checks? If only guessing, what makes you suspect this?

Yes I know for sure for some of them, others I am not sure but can assume not if the others haven't.

And forgive me if this sounds a bit direct, but if you're that worried, why are you letting your DC attend that particular dance class?

My DC does not attend this dance class anymore

Can you not contact someone who runs the dance competions and ask them what is required to enter the competitions and how do you go about finding out if your dance school fits the criteria?

Yes I could do. I will try this. That would clarify if they had to cancel because of a qualification of the teacher or something else.

I'm pretty sure it would all be quite simple to find out, even if you outright ask the dance school owner/manager. Have you done this?

I haven't. This is not an option at present, but something I will be doing

@requestingsunshine
See the link I've provided just above your last post (we probably cross posted).

Thank you. Having a look now.

I know for a fact the dance school my DD attends only the main teacher is enhanced DBS as she does private one to one lessons all the children’s classes the parents have to stay (mixed group of teachers) all in one huge dance studio 3 classes at a time

Of course it is. If you are an employer ( and that counts as someone who employs volunteers) you must ensure staff are DBS checked.

In your example the mum is not an employer is she. It’s an informal arrangement whether he gets chip money or not.. The other kids that turn up do so at their own risk.