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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have felt this was unnecessarily aggressive

93 replies

nickytjj · 17/11/2022 08:50

ok so this happened some time ago but I still think about it and feel it was an inappropriate and aggressive response.

I live in Ireland and at the height of the pandemic the whole country was in heavy lockdown. The rules were clear from the top and we all had to follow them. I worked in schools and they were very strict with masks having to be worn, staff having to be in separate staffrooms etc.

Bars,gyms and restaurants etc were long term closed. It sucked but that's the way it was and as somebody who was in the UK for some of the pandemic I can say that Ireland appeared to be stricter and the lockdowns were longer and more severe ime.

Anyway one night I was out for a sit in the park in the and two police men came across a guy loitering nearby. They seemed to know the guy and I think he was homeless. The guy was not doing anything untoward so it wasn't an emergency situation where they had to act fast. They approached him and began searching him. They weren't wearing masks or gloves which I thought was going against the guidance.

After they searched him I politely asked them are they not supposed to be wearing masks and gloves for the pandemic to stop the disease spreading? 1 of them aggressively shone his torch right in my eyes and shouted (actually shouted loud) ''go mind your own business.''

AIBU to think this was a needless act of aggressiveness and abuse? As a teacher I can't imagine the trouble I'd get in if I were to address a member of the public like that who were questioning a procedure in the school that was going against appropriate and safe behaviour and indeed breaking government legislation.

OP posts:
LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 17/11/2022 09:52

Needmorelego · 17/11/2022 09:51

Your interfering could have ruined some type of undercover police job and set them back months in solving a major crime.
Or they were being arseholes.
We don't know.
You don't know.
Get over it.

They’d be shut undercover cops if their undercover personas were Uniformed police officers

Needmorelego · 17/11/2022 09:53

@LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet the 'homeless' chap could have been the undercover one....
(I watch too much Law and Order 😂)

RitaFires · 17/11/2022 09:57

I'm also Irish and I don't think masks were required outside, gloves definitely weren't. Unfortunately I would think the local Gardaí are all too familiar with the homeless population in their area, I wouldn't interfere in this kind of situation, substance abuse is a major problem for the long term homeless population and while you didn't see him do anything wrong that doesn't mean he doesn't have a history of illegal or even violent behaviour.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 17/11/2022 09:58

Needmorelego · 17/11/2022 09:53

@LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet the 'homeless' chap could have been the undercover one....
(I watch too much Law and Order 😂)

If he’s undercover why does it need informed officer involved?!

And yes lay off the crime dramas 🤣🤣🤣

timeaftertime36 · 17/11/2022 09:58

Your interfering could have ruined some type of undercover police job and set them back months in solving a major crime

They were 2 cops the op said so clearly were not undercover. I'm laughing at all the excuse making in this thread and pile ons against the op. If a thread appears against a teacher on mn over something they did that's being reported by a 6 year old the pitch forks are out. It's all ''go to the head...go to the governors etc.''

And yet when a thread of the abuse from police is reported by a grown adult who witnessed it and is more reliable than a child in giving a factual account the op is in the wrong and the police are doing their job etc. Talk about double standards and again reenforces the dislike for teachers on mn.

ljs22 · 17/11/2022 10:02

@timeaftertime36

I didn't even read the part about OP being a teacher, her profession as nothing to with my opinion - I still disagree with her response in this situation 🤷‍♀️

Needmorelego · 17/11/2022 10:03

@timeaftertime36 if the OP had been that concerned she would have reported it over a year ago.
My 'undercover operation' was a bit tongue in cheek.
There could have been dozens of reasons why they weren't wearing masks and gloves. It really wasn't the OP's business. Worrying about it over a year later is just odd.

timeaftertime36 · 17/11/2022 10:05

Unfortunately I would think the local Gardaí are all too familiar with the homeless population in their area, I wouldn't interfere in this kind of situation, substance abuse is a major problem for the long term homeless population and while you didn't see him do anything wrong that doesn't mean he doesn't have a history of illegal or even violent behaviour

That's not really relevant though. The point was that they were front line workers and were supposed to be wearing ppe like nurses, teachers etc. The op politely queried this and was harshly bullied.

I'm pretty certain that any front line worker during the pandemic having physical contact with each other or the public had to have ppr gear. The police in this situation were having physical contact with the man so should have being wearing it, it being outside isn't relevant.

I don't see why the substance abuse or the type of criminal you allude to is an excuse for them not following the rules the rest of society had to adhere to.

ljs22 · 17/11/2022 10:07

The op politely queried this

I don't think her timing was particularly appropriate though was it? They were clearly in the middle of dealing with a situation that could have potentially have been dangerous or escalated. OP has absolutely no idea of knowing if this man was carrying a knife or something. The police knew, so they were dealing with it. If OP wanted to query their PPE procedures she could have sent an email to the police afterwards for example instead of choosing a moment when the police were clearly dealing with who knows what?

timeaftertime36 · 17/11/2022 10:10

I still disagree with her response in this situation

why though? The police are in a position of responsibility and were being reckless by potentially infecting a homeless man who would be more vulnerable to covid than the general public. They'd also be putting themselves and colleagues at risk as well as members of the general public.

The op simply questioned a safeguarding issue and this was a big safeguarding issue as the homeless man was vulnerable and put at risk. If you saw a teacher on the street with students not enforcing rules and the students being at risk surely you'd say something.

RitaFires · 17/11/2022 10:12

@timeaftertime36 I don't think Gardaí on patrol were required to wear PPE outside, so by that measure they weren't doing anything wrong. I thought the OP was querying their actions in searching the man at all as well as the PPE issue, so that's why I mentioned the homeless drug abuse issue.

timeaftertime36 · 17/11/2022 10:14

I don't think her timing was particularly appropriate though was it? They were clearly in the middle of dealing with a situation that could have potentially have been dangerous or escalated. OP has absolutely no idea of knowing if this man was carrying a knife or something

In the op the op stated ''after they searched him'' so I assume it wasn't right in the middle of the search.

timeaftertime36 · 17/11/2022 10:15

I don't think Gardaí on patrol were required to wear PPE outside, so by that measure they weren't doing anything wrong

They, like all front line workers' still had to wear it when having physical contact though even outside I believe.

Namora · 17/11/2022 10:17

"harshly bullied"
Lol.
Being snapped at once by someone you've annoyed isn't bullying. Arsehole behaviour maybe, possibly unnecessary, but bullying is deliberate targeted behaviour. To call this incident harsh bullying makes a mockery of actual bullying.

Anyway virtually all lockdown restrictions had been lifted in Ireland by July '21, large indoor public gatherings were perfectly legal so no, there was no need for masks to be worn outdoors. It's unhygienic and unsafe to search someone without gloves, but the risk is weighted against the searcher (sharp objects, needles etc could be concealed) rather than the searchee.

ljs22 · 17/11/2022 10:17

timeaftertime36 · 17/11/2022 10:10

I still disagree with her response in this situation

why though? The police are in a position of responsibility and were being reckless by potentially infecting a homeless man who would be more vulnerable to covid than the general public. They'd also be putting themselves and colleagues at risk as well as members of the general public.

The op simply questioned a safeguarding issue and this was a big safeguarding issue as the homeless man was vulnerable and put at risk. If you saw a teacher on the street with students not enforcing rules and the students being at risk surely you'd say something.

Because I disagree 🤷‍♀️ I'd assume there were risks attached to interfering in the middle of the police dealing with a member of the public. I have no idea about the specifics of the situation, I don't know if this man could potentially be violent for example. I just wouldn't have approached this in the way OP did. If I wanted to query something I'd have done it afterwards by email or made a phone call.

Foolsandtheirmoney · 17/11/2022 10:22

I do wonder what you hoping to achieve by asking in the first place? Like someone else said I don't think we were anywhere near a harsh lockdown by that stage were we? You make a smart arse comment to guards doing their job and want what in return?

ljs22 · 17/11/2022 10:25

I suppose in the same way as I wouldn't approach a paramedic in the middle of them dealing with a situation with a member of the public - I'd assume my interference might cause risks to that person. Same principle really. You just don't know what is being dealt with in that moment and I don't see it as my my place to get involved. But as I've said, if something I had witnessed really bothered me; I'd follow up afterwards with a phone call or email to the relevant people. It's just a different way of approaching things.

dolo · 17/11/2022 10:26

Being snapped at once by someone you've annoyed isn't bullying

ofcourse it is, he was using his authority to do so. And whether he was ''annoyed'' or not is neither here nor there, he was totally unprofessional by a member of the public asking a question about procedure which is their prerogative. If a teacher snaps at a child on here or snapping at a parent you'd not be saying this.

ChristmasisRuined · 17/11/2022 10:27

🙄🙄🙄

ljs22 · 17/11/2022 10:28

Foolsandtheirmoney · 17/11/2022 10:22

I do wonder what you hoping to achieve by asking in the first place? Like someone else said I don't think we were anywhere near a harsh lockdown by that stage were we? You make a smart arse comment to guards doing their job and want what in return?

Exactly - what on earth did OP expect from this exchange?

"Sorry potentially risky member of the public, can you just stand there and not move and definitely don't stab anyone for a second, while we give a full detailed overview to this lady about our PPE policies. Thank you". 🤔

As I've said. The timing was all wrong.

dolo · 17/11/2022 10:28

You make a smart arse comment to guards doing their job and want what in return

so questioning a professional not doing their job properly is a smart arse comment''? Jesus wept.

dolo · 17/11/2022 10:29

Exactly - what on earth did OP expect from this exchange?
"Sorry potentially risky member of the public, can you just stand there and not move and definitely don't stab anyone for a second, while we give a full detailed overview to this lady about our PPE policies. Thank you". 🤔
As I've said. The timing was all wrong

The search was over though so it was ''after'' if you read the op.

Rosie22xx · 17/11/2022 10:30

Police have always abused their power. Throughout the pandemic I have found they themselves fining or arresting others over covid breaches were quite clearly breaching themselves. They say to stay 2 metres away but police would always be right up in someone's face, unmasked. Also there is no need for that response they gave you. I understand if they don't want or need you involved, but those aren't the normal actions and words a person should be using in any job. Police all around the world, abuse of power. And seems nothing we can do, they continue to get away with everything.

Original poster
nickytjj · 17/11/2022 10:32

Can I add that the homeless man had moved on and the search was OVER after I questioned them. I didn't do it during the search.

OP posts:
ChillysWaterBottle · 17/11/2022 10:33

'Harshly bullied' 'abused' wtf guys....maybe google what these words mean before using them.

OP I think it sounds like an unprofessional response but equally not sure why you thought that was a good time to try and get involved in a potentially volatile situation you knew nothing about. This seems a strange post all round.