To give into DS so he stays living with me?

[skyrus1]

I posted about a week ago about DS and his boyfriend but I'm not sure how to link so I'll give some context.

DS is 17, he has ASD and is emotionally younger than he is. He's In a relationship with a boy (18) and I have some concerns, I won't list them all but the main ones are, bf has already cheated on DS, they don't use condoms I've tried speaking to DS on many occasions and he says ‘Ben says we don't need them’ etc he's now refused to speak about it at all, he seems controlling and has already put them moving in together in his head as when I ask him to do things he says ‘Ben says if I lived with him I wouldn't have to do x’. I don't let Ben stay over which is now causing problems.

DS went to his house this evening for dinner, I then had a message from bens mum saying DS was crying to her because I don't like ben and I treat him like a baby by not letting ben stay over, Ben's always been fine in front of me about it but I don't know what he's saying to DS away from me. DS is sleeping at his tonight as bens mum told him he can, which I'm worried about as DS has never been away from me before overnight apart from at family members houses but I obviously trust them etc, he messaged me earlier and thanked me for letting him stay at Bens and told me ben wants to talk to me tomorrow but I'm just wondering if I should just give in to DS and hope the novelty of them having sleepovers wears off, but also I don't want to push them even closer together by doing it.

WWYD?

I think your son is pretty much an adult and is of the age of consent so there's not really much you can do unfortunately. I'd be inclined to let Ben stay over- better they're where you can keep an eye on the dynamic than where you have no idea what's going on. I'd also look into any lgbtqa+ Youth Groups/support workers in your area and have a word with a youth worker there about them doing some work with your son around healthy relationships and safe, consenting sex. Sometimes there are things we can hear and take on board from our parents and then sometimes there are things we just need to hear from someone else. If nothing else then at least they'd back you up around contraception and respect and probably provide both of them with free safer sex packs and information. With the cheating and lack of protection an sti check probably wouldnt be a bad thing to encourage as well, either through your gp as part of a check up or some lgbtqa+ Youth centres will have a nurse that comes in and does this every whack about. Your son is at an age where he's going to be taking new steps into adulthood really soon and he's going to need you to be there as his sounding board- unfortunately you can't protect him from any and all mistakes he will make (nor would it be good for him if you could) but learning how to recover from mistakes, and think about his choices is actually the best support you can give him as a mum. Are you his appointee for his affairs? When he turns 18 you'll notice a big difference in how much can be shared with you so I'd try to be there as a support for him as much as possible so that if things do get difficult/ fall apart you're right there.

He thanked you for letting him stay with his boyfriend??? He's 17, not 7, no wonder he's accused you of treating him like a baby. He's never been away from you overnight, except for staying with family?? I'm afraid it does sound like you're babying him to me OP. However in saying that, I don't have any experience of anyone with ASD, so I might be totally wrong in this situation. Happy to be put right. I would definitely be encouraging your DS to use condoms under normal circumstances, but with a BF who has already cheated, I would try and make it clear to your DS just how important it is. I suppose really, not understanding the ASD situation, I perhaps shouldn't have commented, but didn't want to leave your question unanswered.

Do you think DS has capacity to consent to unprotected sex? Does he understand the consequences of STDs etc.? Because if that is true, he has the right to make bloody stupid decisions.

I don't think it's the worst idea in the world to meet with Ben, DS, Ben's mum and you and talk about your concerns. I'd bet Ben's mum isn't aware of the unprotected, multiple partners.

And as PP says, impartial advice.

Sounds like 'Cw112' has far more knowledge about this than I do OP, so please just ignore my response.

I'm not qualified on many things mentioned, but blocking this guy staying over because of fear of other actions might be counterproductive in the long run

Perhaps it might be better to embrace the present and then use the openness it might facilitate to eventually have a more fruitful conversation, putting up a barrier to try and enact your perspective might drive him further away

It does however seem that there is no easy solution here without issues but at least if you are being partially supportive that will help mitigate him completely disregarding your guidance

Do exactly this if you want to push your son away forever. A sit down meeting with his bf and mum to discuss their sex life? No no a million times no. You've given the knowledge he needs, he's practically an adult having legal consensual sex, stay out of it. He's right you're babying him

he's practically an adult having legal consensual sex

Only if he has capacity to consent. And I'd be extremely concerned by the statement that they don't need condoms because Ben says they don't. That may indicate a lack of capacity. Equally, he may have capacity.

Signed

Someone who has both worked with vulnerable adults and made capacity decisions.

Also, it was BEN'S suggestion to talk to OP. Not mine.

It’s not a sleepover! They’re young adults both over the age of consent. They want to sleep together, not have a sleep over with midnight snacks and giggles all night long!

Time to let your DS grow up a little bit, if not you’ll drive him away

Let him go. Ben’s mum will find living with two stinky, moody teendults rather tedious shortly

Just to explain a little about the 'age of consent', that is ONE aspect of consent. With adults with additional needs, there are other factors.

www.bihr.org.uk/explainer-mental-capacity-and-sexual-relations explains it well.

I've worked with many adults with ASD who can give informed consent, and some who do not have that capacity.

OP hasn't been back to clarify though.

I think DS is too immature for sex but I can't stop them. DS does seem to understand about STDs but I'm not sure as whenever i’d speak to him he didn't seem interested. I tried asking him if he thinks they need to use condoms and he said no but wouldn't say why he thought that but now he won't speak to me about it at all as he says he'll only talk to ben about it so he might agree tomorrow but I'm not sure as I'll also be there, I also don't know why ben wants to talk to me but ill try and mention my concerns to him.

Does your ds have a disability social worker? He should be entitled to one if he doesn't already. They'd be able to give you guidance on whether your ds has been deemed to have capacity to consent or not? It would be good to know that before he turns 18 because it would apply to decisions around money/ managing tenancies etc etc and would let you know exactly where you're likely to stand when he does turn 18 so you're prepared and can prepare him accordingly? I think sit down with Ben and see what he says. If your gut feels like he's being genuine then have an open chat about your worries re: safe sex and that you're happy for ds to be in a relationship you just want to know he's being safe while in one because the info he's giving you is worrying you about both of them and their health/ wellbeing.

I would also sit down with ds at some stage and work out the finances of living alone in a private rental. The likelihood is that he couldn't afford it or it would be tight going. Cynical me would worry that Ben might be thinking of your ds as a way to get more money/accommodation if your son gets pip etc and would be higher priority for your local housing authority. So good for ds to see that he'd save loads living at home and hopefully the disability sw could give you a steer on whether he'd be classed as a vulnerable adult.

I agree in principle with@MrsTerryPratchett about capacity etc but in my experience the threshold for deeming an over 18 year old as vulnerable and unable to give consent is very high. I've never seen it happen even in cases where I was sure someone would meet the remit without question and there was clear exploitation happening. So deffo try and get this in place prior to 18 if you can.

Nowhere did op mention Ben's mum being there

I think the tricky thing here is that the OP's DS has ASD, and isn't really at the level of your typical 17 yr old. It really does change a lot, and means that the usual social norms and expectations can be a lot more challenging. PP here are commenting as if the OP's DS were a regular 17 yr old and that's not the case.

As always, @MrsTerryPratchett is giving excellent advice. ASD is such an enormous spectrum, it really does depend whereabouts on it the OP's son lies. From the info here, it sounds doubtful that he's giving properly informed consent (where he understands exactly what he's consenting to) but we can't be sure. But even if he does, he's a particularly vulnerable young adult, and he needs more protection than your average 17 yr old.

OP - I think a calm, unbiased, unemotive response is imperative. If you seem to be critical of Ben, your DS won't be receptive to anything you say. The key is to seem open-minded and accepting, even if inside you are thinking that Ben is an absolute arsehole. The sense of injustice tends to burn quite fiercely inside us autistics, and if your DS believes you're being unfair to Ben, you'll push them closer together.

I think if you don't let Ben stay you'll fuel the fire and send him into his arms. It's a really tricky line. I'd let him stay so I could keep a closer eye on how Ben behaves, and what the dynamic is like. Ben's mother will clearly accommodate them if you don't, so refusing will only put you in the "bad guy" camp. Is there anyone else who might broach the subject with your DS, OP? Even if it's not specifically about Ben, but STIs and sexual health in general? And staying safe?

Both of my DC are autistic and I have lots of friends with autistic DC. This point when they move from a legal child to adulthood is so problematic when your child isn't really ready for all that it brings. Of course some ASD teens navigate it just fine, but others are really a very long way from being your typical young adult and this really puts them at risk, physically, emotionally and even financially.

in my experience the threshold for deeming an over 18 year old as vulnerable and unable to give consent is very high. I've never seen it happen even in cases where I was sure someone would meet the remit without question and there was clear exploitation happening. So deffo try and get this in place prior to 18 if you can.

I agree it's rare.

Your son has additional needs and is young for his age so I understand your reluctance about him sleeping with someone. He is vulnerable.

I would be worried about them not having safe sex but it is possible that they are not having penetrative sex; not all homosexuals do. It's not something about which you would go into detail with a parent. However I suppose you could ask him.

It's not a bad idea to meet with the other boy's mum and chew over your concerns. She too may be concerned but trying to make the best of it.

Some of the advise seems to be based on age but it's not about his age, he's a vulnerable young adult . I think I would let the boyfriend stop as I would sooner what's happening be taking place under my roof. If this does start to go wrong you want to be the one your son comes to. I'd have a talk to them/him tell him you worry because you love him but you will try to be supportive.

I can understand how worried you are about your ds. I’d let Ben stay but only so that I could keep an eye on things. Idk what you really can do if you don’t like what you see as your ds seems to be hanging off his every word. As your ds is vulnerable, I think speaking to Ben’s mum would be appropriate. I looked at your other thread. He’s 18 so basically the same age. The lack of condoms would really concern me too as Ben is sleeping around and boys/ young men do tend to think they’re invincible at this age.

No, DS doesn't have a disability social worker but ill look into it. I did speak to college and they spoke to him but DS wasn't happy when he got home that I’d spoken to them. He does get pip, but I'm his appointee (I think it's called) so it all gets paid to me and I give him some when he tells me what he wants to buy with it as he can't manage money but Ben works so I don't think this is the reason, although it could be.

DS is home and he's fine, albeit grumpy as he's tired as he usually goes to sleep at 9:30 as he's a very early riser. He told me he can't remember why ben wants to talk to me but he doesn't want to be involved in it.

Thought I'd update with a hopeful bump.

Ben came over this evening but he seemed quite rude with his tone of how he was saying things. I mentioned them not using condoms and what DS was saying, he denied it and said he actually said he doesn't mind and told DS it was up to him and told me I upset DS when I keep mentioning condoms as he doesn't want to use them although I do believe DS and not him. He told me he didn't cheat apparently DS’s friends lied to him, which I also don't believe as DS told me Ben had told him. Before he left he did say he loves DS and wants a future with him and apparently DS has said the same. I told him he can stay over at weekends but I still don't know if it's the right thing to do.

The way he was speaking sounded a lot like DS recently which is concerning as he seems to be copying