To remind drivers to give space

[BelleMarionette]

According the the highway code , drivers should allow at least 1.5m, or 5 ft, when overtaking a cyclist. Cyclists are also not obliged to cycle in the gutter by the road: in fact cycle skills teaches a more central position for visibility and safety.

I am cycling to and from work as it's the right thing to do environmentally. Public transport is pretty limited unfortunately. Around half of drivers pass too close, often within a foot and at speed. I have noticed that it is often German car drivers.. I also had a driver intimidate be by coming up close behind me and sounding the horn because I wasn't in the gutter. In this occasion it was approaching a junction with no safe space to overtake.

I have also had a car reverse into me when I was still in a queue of traffic. It sounds simple, but drivers need to look in their rear view mirror when reversing.

To anticipate common moans people have about cyclists: I have third party insurance, I have done cycle skills training, and have a driving license so am aware of the rules of the road, and I stop at red lights.

OH cycles every day. He challenges other cyclists who act like berks in traffic, on footpaths. He says there are two groups who are the worst. Weekend lycra clad men who carve up cars, pedestrians and dogs. And dog walkers with extending leads who use cycle paths as their dogs toilet area. During the week he finds cyclists reasonable in the main

I always think of this whenever there is an irate cycling thread on here…

In London if a cyclist is in the middle of a lane, then crossing completely over into the oncoming lane, on the very rare occasion that is possible, will not be enough to create a 1.5m gap. To comply strictly with the law, you can only overtake cyclists who keep to the left.

I don't think most of the people asking for 1.5m understand how much that is, it's a huge amount, far more than cars routinely give each other, on the roads I drive on.

😀😀

I'm a cyclist and a driver. I always give cyclists the correct clearance when overtaking, and I will overtake only when I have sufficient visibility of the road ahead to see that it is safe, even if that means ignoring the usual suspects getting impatient behind me. I don't mind having to slow down for a minute or two before overtaking.

What is infuriating, though, are:

• cyclists who, on winding, narrow roads with no opportunities to overtake safely, keep you at 15mph for 6 miles ( I'm really not exaggerating - we have a lot of long, twisty roads around here) instead of pulling over; and

• phalanxes of MAMILS who ride two abreast and in an unbroken block so they are trickier to overtake than a lorry, so that you are stuck until they turn off.

There is a sweet spot between cyclists' right to enjoy the road safely, and their s.169 obligation to pull over to avoid creating a lengthy obstruction. Yes, there are plenty of reckless German Whip drivers, but there are also entitled cyclists, who seem unaware of their legal duties.

I'm more than happy to give cyclists plenty of room when I overtake and obey the Highway Code. I always wait and pull out over the white line when passing cyclists.

I would just like clarity as to why cyclists can't repay the same courtesy.

When traffic is stopped at traffic lights, cyclists should also stop and wait their turn in the traffic queue instead of forcing themselves between the kerb and cars/down the middle of two lines of traffic, scraping by with inches to spare. I don't understand why cars have to leave 1.5m when cyclists clearly don't.

I also don't understand why cyclists jump up kerbs and cycle on the footpaths when traffic lights are red and then dangerously swerve back out into traffic as and when they feel like it.

I have had my wing mirrors knocked down by cyclists more than enough times when I've been queuing in my car and I have been physically bumped on my arms by handle bars and break levers when I've been walking on footpaths. Where is the 1.5m rule then?

I don't understand how cars have to give at least 1.5m clearance when passing bicycles but bicycles don't give 1.5m when passing cars/pedestrians.

Cyclists can't have it all ways?

I will start giving MAMILS cyclists respect, when THEY start giving motorists respect. Cyclists can't have it all their own way.

Then the road is not wide enough for a safe overtake so you need to wait until it is.

Bollocks does it. If a car close passes a cyclist, they could kill them. If a cyclist close passes a car, the worst they could do is scrape the paint.

Why on earth do you need to overtake a cyclist in London? The average speed of traffic in central London is 7.1mph. Faster the further out you go of course, but still sub-20.

@2greenroses oh, okay. I'll let my school know to change their start time then. Or instruct DDs breakfast club to change their opening hours. I'm sure they will happily accommodate 😒

There are considerably more stories of bad drivers killing and injuring cyclists than bad cyclists killing and injuring pedestrians.

Averaged over the period 2016 to 2021:
an average of 2 pedal cyclists died and 84 were seriously injured (adjusted) per week in reported road casualties

Averaged over the period 2016 to 2021:
an average of 8 pedestrians died and 115 were seriously injured (adjusted) per week in reported road collisions

Between 2013 and 2020,
fewer than four (3.8) pedestrians were killed in collisions with a cyclist each year on average, Department for Transport (DfT) figures on road traffic accidents in Great Britain show.

Annual peaks came in 2013 and 2019, when six fatalities were recorded each, compared to a low of one in 2018. In 2020, there were four deaths.

Thats 2 cyclists and 8 pedestrians on average per week killed by vehicles and <4 per year killed by cyclists. But let’s concentrate on bad cyclists.

I wonder if what you wear makes a difference to the drivers - so’aggressive’ yellow Lycra and pointy helmet, hunched over the bike as if racing - no one gives way.

Female in everyday clothes, sit up bike, pink reflective tabard - drivers avoid. (Possibly because they think you are more likely to fall off)

What? Standard road lane width is 5.5m.

So if the cyclist is in the middle of the lane, they're 2.75m from the white line.

You cross to be the other side of the white line, you're giving double the required distance.

I am not doubting this is your experience OP but from what I see and from what I do as a motorist I think people drive better around cyclists than years gone by. I definitely remember an expectation that drivers would scrape past a cyclist where as now I usually see drivers moving slowly behind and over taking when clear. A lot of cyclists have also changed their behaviour cycling more aggressively and racing the traffic and some roads are packed at weekends with cyclists. Of course everyone should leave enough room and respect each other on the roads.

@PurpleButterflyWings what a strange attitude to take. So if a cyclist doesn't slow down to let you overtake you will take it out on the next one you see by giving them a close pass? You do realise that each cyclist is an individual person and not responsible for the actions of all other cyclists.

Also what you see as a lack of respect for you as a driver may in fact be a cyclist practising self preservation. Ie their actions may be designed to prevent an overtake when it isn't safe.

I don't understand how cars have to give at least 1.5m clearance when passing bicycles but bicycles don't give 1.5m when passing cars/pedestrians.

Thought experiment for you.

You know how it's ok and safe for you to walk through lines of parked cars in the supermarket car park, but you wouldn't (I hope) wander down the central white line on the A1?

That's why.

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche can't you see the difference between a car passing a cyclist at 30- 50 mph and a cyclist passing a stationary queue of traffic. The risk assessment is completely different. I understand this can be annoying for you if you have just waited behind the cyclist for a safe place to pass but the safest place for a cyclist setting off in a queue is sometimes at the front where everyone can see them hence the existence of bike boxes at some traffic lights.

Cyclists and motorcyclists are allowed to filter on either side when traffic is stopped.

There is no excuse for a cyclist to pass so close as to knock a wing mirror or to jump a red light so I would agree with you there.

@Lockheart you made that point much better than I did thank you 🤣

Get a camera fitted and report the drivers, the more that get reported in operation snap, then the more that will realise they can get points on their licence & a fine when passing a cyclists illegally close

thise that think you’re being unreasonable to ask drivers to follow the rules of the road can’t justify breaking the law. They’d be pissed off though if they passed 2/3 cyclists illegally close & lost their driving licence

I don't understand how cars have to give at least 1.5m clearance when passing bicycles but bicycles don't give 1.5m when passing cars/pedestrians.

go and stand at the station behind the yellow line on the station platform- when a train, not stopping at the station passes through - feel the drag from the train. This is why there is a yellow line, to protect people.

now when a train is stopped at the station, run down the platform next to the train, there will not be any drag and you can go both sides of the yellow line as it’s now safe

this is the same physics

I totally get how vulnerable cyclists feel, I ride horses and road work is dangerous because of dangerous, inconsiderate drivers.

But cyclists can be utter cunts. There are miles of shared paths near. The cyclist/walkers ones. Cyclists 'don't like it' as 'it is too slow' for them. So they race up and down the road instead. The roads that are really busy especially at commute o'clock and weekends. And race in packs making it impossible for traffic to pass.

Cyclists commuting use the shared path quite happily. Those competitie twats in lycra make everyone else wait while they play Bradley Wiggins, no other sport or leisure activity would be allowed to cause the traffic issues they do.

And the off road ones are just as bad. We have quite a lot of bridleways near us. Taking my life in my own hands to use them on a sunday morning with cycles whizzing around corners at speed and trying to barge past.

A car will hurt a cyclist. But so will 600kg of frightened horse if you pop out of nowhere at 30mph.

What? You obviously don't cycle on busy roads. I would be continuously pulled in. Yanbu. I don't ride in the gutter. It's dangerous and full of pot holes. I also don't ride close to parked cars as I've had too many near misses with thoughtless drivers opening doors.

Also why is it always cyclists v drivers? I am both and I behave considerately in both roles. Some people are just twats...walking, cycling or driving!

"When the Dutch built Amsterdam, they decided to fundamentally prioritise public transport, cycling and walking. It results in a radically different road set up to the cobbled together set of rules and rule changes we have."

Rubbish.
When Amsterdam (and every other major city in the Netherlands and the UK) was built, neither bicycles nor cars had been invented!
People walked. There were horses, sometimes pulling things.

In the 60s/ 70s, Amsterdam was full of parked and moving cars, congested, polluted, etc, and children who lived there were so sick of it (and the high number of child deaths) that they started campaigning for play streets, for more public car-free space.
There's a documentary about it - excerpt here: (it's a really inspiring watch, esp for kids who want to change their world).
There's another film which explains more of the history here:

Yes, they did consciously decide that decent infrastructure for bikes was worth building, and they've been prepared to invest in it (approx 30 euros per annum per person - it's been calculated that the resulting increase in cycling, and therefore public health, has actually led to larger gains for the economy as less days are lost to workers being off sick).

We could do that here, if the political will existed.

Another fascinating source of stories about Dutch people campaigning successfully for bikes:
www.goodreads.com/book/show/13623832-in-the-city-of-bikes