Recurrent chemical pregnancies and doctors have no answers - please help me

[outpatient]

Posting here as no one replies to other forums in my experience

Has anyone has recurrent chemical pregnancies? Has anyone had this that also has a know thyroid condition?

I have now have four positive pregnancy tests that end in no bleeding.

I have had surgery to treat endometriosis and scarring and was told my issues were hopefully now resolved but there's been another chemical loss so I am feeling doubtful.

Anyone had recurrent pregnancies and IVF has resolved as my GP is recommending this but I'm not sure I trust as I would be paying him privately a lot of money.

The NHS I am finding impossible literally to deal with right now so just want to know if any success from IVF after recurrent chemicals that's all I need answers for right now?

Has anyone done this and it worked? Thanks

I took the progesterone the day after I ovulated ( confirmed by tracking temps) this resulted in a
6 year old girl and 4 year old boy.
If I had listened to the nhs consultant I would have accepted that the loss of my daughter at 21 weeks was one of those things and it would have happened again as it was caused my anti phospholipid syndrome.

I don't have any direct experience but a close friend had similar. Also had treatment for high NK cells, ended up on steroids (??) and anticoagulants, and went on to have two babies at 42 and 43.5 yrs old.

I think what people may be missing with the 'dont test too early' thing is a)you have been TTC for 3 years; b) male factor seems to have been ruled out and c) you're 36.

Of course you're not wrong to test early, and seek further help. The private consultant sounds crap if they don't have your confidence. I hope you either get somewhere on the NHS or find a good private consultant.

In answer to your question about when people test, when I was TTC I only tested on the day my period was due if it didn’t arrive. It took eight cycles to conceive my son. It’s possible I could have had chemical pregnancies in the cycles before that but I wouldn’t have known.

Thanks everyone responses very helpful.

I just emailed my private doctor to ask for NK Cells testing. His response;

Not really, we cannot test this. In research setting, it used to be tested and if found treated with steroids.

In answer to testing, i dont know anyone in real life who tested early, that seems to be a mumsnet thing. Took me 11 cycles to conceive, the first test i took whilst ttc was that one. My period hadnt show up all day so about 9pm i took a very dusty old poundland dip test id bought way back when i came off the pill and it was positive. Id been tempted on occasion to test early but then i saw the price, how people afford to endlessly test early is beyond me! Give me a pack of 3 poundland strip tests for £1 anyday. They can only be used on the day of your missed period. There's no doubt in my mind that at some point in those failed 10 cycles i probably would have had a positive had i tested early but why bother

My tests are often the day of failed period

@TheCatWithGreenEyes @1010storeylovesong hello both, I'm 10 weeks and currently on progesterone due to bleeding in early pregnancy (and one chemical in May). Gynaecologist only recommended it up until 12 weeks, but it seems you may have been taking it longer? My GP said they'll do it up to 16 weeks, due to a recent study. Do you think there's a risk of stopping mid pregnancy? I'm so worried of stopping and then immediately losing the pregnancy!

@pippabg
Professor Quenby who in my opinion is one of the most knowledgeable consultants out there recommend I take it till 36 weeks. I actually took it till 37 when I had my c section.
My local hospital consultation tried to say I should stop at 16 weeks. But my gp was happy to go off what Professor Quenby said.
I also found a new consultant privately and she transferred me to her fetal medicine clinic at jessops in Sheffield. She was happy with me taking it till 36 weeks. She was also happy to perform a c section due to maternal anxiety which my local consultant refused x

@outpatient also look into Professor shehata

clexane clexane clexane

Another that recommends getting NK cells tested. It's pricey but some NHS trusts include this in their RMC blood panel if you're lucky. I've had 3 losses at 5 weeks and now on hydroxychloroquine to lower my high NK cells. Good luck!

I test only on the day of a missed period. You testing on the day of failed period is totally normal, don't understand how anyone could consider that early.
But OP, just to pick up on what you said about 3 of them being 3 days after your period was due so 4-5 weeks in- this makes your losses miscarriages, not chemicals. They're only chemicals if you're not late yet. I know you're seeing a private consultant but your GP should be referring you to recurrent miscarriage clinic too.

@HiCandles ah I didn't know this was the technical definition because even in the past I've tested early but the bleeding has started AFTER the period would have been due anyway usually by a few days

@Greeneyegirl uh... Because the OP has been TTC for 3 years?

12 months is pretty much the accepted cut off for further investigations. You fell pregnant before then. That's great. But I don't think you should extrapolate from your experience to the OP's, however well-intentioned.

Plus, the internet tests are pennies per strip. And even if using Poundland own, £1 per month isn't going to bring the wolves to the door 😉

I'm a early tester OP. I think it's common for those actively TTC to test early.

This!
i had 3 early losses.
get an nk cells test done. It costs £500 at Coventry. They prescribe steroids.

i did move on to ivf a couple of months later. I had 3 failed transfers. For my fourth transfer I begged them if I could use my steroids as the nhs doesn’t prescribe it and my ivf was my free nhs round. They agreed. I’m now 22 weeks pregnant. I strongly believe it was the steroids.

also if your partner has just had the nhs sperm test. Don’t rely on it. They are so outdated. Pay around £300 for a dna fragmentation comet test. My DH was told he had normal sperm from the nhs. Comet test said he had bad dna fragmentation. So armed with that test we qualified fo icsi. As a result we got 9 high quality embryos from our first round.

also ignore the women in this group who are in their 50s/60s saying they waited to test. Of course they did. There were no other options. These days we have more tests and knowledge is power.

i have done both waited until test day and tested early. both have its benefits depending on what day of the week you are due and What else you have going on. Do whatever feels right for you.

@outpatient so I would consider a chemical pregnancy as positive test before period due, then period arrives on time or very close if you're a bit irregular. If you're getting a positive test when you're already late, then have bleeding, you were 'officially' pregnant making a loss a miscarriage. I'm a GP and will tell you that chemical pregnancies weren't regarded as a thing in my training, not mentioned once in any gynae textbook ever that I've read, because the conventional thinking is that women don't test until they've missed a period. Clearly that's now rubbish thanks to First Response etc technology getting better. I mean it's just words in a way but correctly calling them miscarriages might make your medical professionals take the notice they should be. Good luck x

I’ve now read all your messages. I think you need a new private doctor.

• he won’t let you do the nk cells test. Ignore him and go straight to Coventry. You don’t need to be referred you just pay £500 as an independent customer. He doesn’t need to agree. And neither does your GP.
• read it starts with the egg. Thanks wish I had started reading this earlier!
• pay for the dna comet test
• dont waste your money on the karotyping test yet. Most people don’t have an issue. I paid £700 i got a letter saying Me and my DH have the right amount of chromosomes. Waste of money.
• has you GP referred you for recurrent miscarriage blood tests. If not this is a big failing as you have had 3 losses. Ask your GP to do this referral.
• have you had the basic tests to check hormone levels. You get this if you have been trying for 12 months. If not ask your GP to refer you.

@XjustagirlX thank you so much for this,

I am booking the test with quenby asap x

Hi @outpatient I just found this thread as I am in a similar boat. I’d love to know if you found any answers over the past few years. I hope it went well for you.

Have you read ‘It Starts With The Egg’? I can’t recommend it enough. Unfortunately, a lot of even fertility specialists don’t know as much as you’d think. Good luck.

Hi @Excited101 yes I have, I’ve been following the recommendations for six months. I unfortunately can’t take DHEA due to family history of breast cancer. I’ve done everything else it suggests.

I had a about four early miscarriages and eventually underwent fertility testing. We did one IUI while we were waiting for IVF. The first ivf resulted in poor quality embryos with lots of fragmentation and slow division. The doctors said I had poor egg quality. Which sort of explains the early losses. The next ivf they icsi and I got one good embryo and that pregnancy was successful and I got a baby! I was prescribed additional progesterone at the beginning of the pregnancy.
So IVF was the answer for us. We were very lucky to get two free cycles

Thanks @wurlycurly. how long did you wait before moving to IVF?

We tried for just over a year before investigations. These were paid through private health insurance. Then went to the GP who referred us for IVF. The wait was around nine months so we did a privately funded round of IUI while we waited. Then about another wait of around ten months to start the second round