On hold to ambulance

[AlizeeEasy]

Earlier this evening I had to call for an ambulance, I was shocked to be put on hold for a few minutes. I’ve never had to call them before so I don’t know if this is somewhat the norm, especially for a Saturday evening. Does this seem like it should be the case?

For context I had initially called for the police as I thought the matter was more appropriate for them and they answered immediately but told me to hang up and call back for the ambulance.

I have such a deep respect for the emergency services, so this isn’t a critique of them, just of the apparent lack of resources to cover busier periods.

And I should add that my DM had been bed bound for a couple of weeks prior to this (late stages of cancer, immobility, pain so severe that evening she could hardly bare to be touched) and that many patients who call for an ambulance are in a similar situation. If only it was as easy as getting every patient to A&E by transporting them by car, etc.

I was reading this thread in the hospital last night. I've moved from the South of England where we've waited for 12 hours for an ambulance before to Scotland. I felt embarrassed that when a nurse (that came to our home) phoned an ambulance last night they were here in 25 minutes. It was not life threatening but I couldn't move and so needed to be physically put in the ambulance to get to hospital. I was in and out of A&E within 4 hours. I feel much safer here.
This thread is frightening reading.

This simply isn't true. We have had private ambulances for years and years.

I worked in a major cardiothoracic hospital with responsibility for the transfer of critically ill patients and we always used a combination of private and NHS ambulances. Most private ambulances are staffed by ex-military or NHS paramedics along with technicians and run the gamut from glorified minibuses to 'fully equipped' blue light jobs - inverted commas due to the poor standard of the private ambos. Had one lose all power while transferring a ventilator dependent patient on multiple infusions, that was interesting.

This is a local article from 2017 about the growing dependency of the NHS upon private ambulances including 999 calls and it's only got worse since then. If there's money to be made, someone will always take advantage. Ambulances should not be run on a bare bones basis just to maximise profits.

As an example here's Met Medical who specialise in private 999 ambos, there are many more.

Funeral homes sometimes choose to livery them as 'private ambulances' to disguise the fact it's basically a regular Transit. Actual private ambulances are dressed up so it's often difficult to tell they aren't NHS, this is by design!

I looked online and couldn’t see this type of one off service. Only contract type ones. Where does it exist then? Genuinely interested.

Are you taking about a scheme like My Local Bobby?

As far as I know there is no way in this country (yet!) to call a private ambulance directly in the case of an emergency - it would open them up to all sorts of legal liabilities. Even in America where private ambulances are very common they are still allocated through the 911 call centre.

There is a significant issue with the complete non deviation off script. I have a friend who broke her ankle and a bone in her spine. The call centre would only triage one injury and asked the patient to decide which was worse. Difficult without an XRay machine. The ankle became excruciating so she went with that. They then kicked up a fuss about sending an ambulance venturing she could hop to a private car. Err no because there was also a fracture to the spine. To top it all they then advised that she could take paracetamol and/or ibuprofen for pain but needed to get advice from a pharmacist before doing so. Presumably she was supposed to hop there.

It's less to do with resources and more to do with common sense and management in my opinion.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g I did literally mean in those desperate situations where you could potentially be waiting over a day. I don’t mean in general.

In Sheffield, where I live. My brother works for them.

If you have a link to show you can call a 999 equivalent and have an emergency ambulance dispatched straight to you I'd be fascinated as I can't find one in Sheffield or anywhere else.

Me neither @acrimoniousone just ones that provide private contracts to healthcare or nhs. Not to average Joe Public which was my original point.

The system is broken and I honestly don't see it getting better.

I regularly have to phone for ambulances and I'm often left perplexed by their responses. Asked if a patient that had fallen out a third floor window could be transported by someone else. Patient was unconscious, visible head injury and clearly broken femur. This was after they told me it would be referred for a clinician call back.

I know of a 27yr old who waited 6hrs for an ambulance despite clear signs of a stroke; facial paralysis, unable to speak, unable to move, confused/distressed . The call takers were adamant they were just hungover/under the influence of drugs and this is heard on the recorded lines of the phone calls. This person has been left with physical disabilities for the rest of their life.

Frustratingly ambulance service also pass lots of medical calls to the police when they can't attend. Heart attack, elderly person fallen, mental health related calls. The police inevitably turn up within a few minutes because they have to then are left waiting with unwell people who they're not trained to help. And their berated because they can't deal with the calls relating to crimes.

People misusing the service are the biggest drain, they know exactly what to say to get and emergency response when their drug seeking/lonely/attention seeking leaving the people in genuine need waiting hrs for much needed help. I honestly hope to fix I never need any emergency service because I know the wait will be long.

Let’s hope you don’t need it then

seriously though, is it a very secret service? because it doesn’t seem to exist!

£ 109K would pay the starting salaries for 3 nurses!!! Clearly you have little experience within the NHS.
You only have to walk down a corridor of a major hospital to see the rows of doors with ....Manager of this / that and the other....

When my MIL had a fall from her bed, (a compos mentis 72 yr old ) the most senior person in charge of a large hospital was a ward sister from a Renal Dialasis Unit .....on a Friday at 6pm!

That's what's wrong ...the NHS has become a top heavy structure burdened by bureaucracy. Managers making work for managers, all justifying their jobs.
I got out when the cleaning staff were outsourced. That was the day the writing was on the wall. 😥

@NCFT0922 surely the firm are contractors for the NHS and you access them by calling 999?

I agree with you. 999 operator here, for another service. The pathways the ambulance service use are absolutely not fit for purpose. I am used to being able to use my common sense and am free to question however I see fit but then I am trained to a high enough standard to be able to do this. The ambulance ops are basically reading from a script they are not allowed to deviate from and it causes issues. Calling from another agency I do not need to be told "stay on the line and I will tell you what to do next" - our management have this conversation with their management so frequently and it falls on deaf ears - YOU ARE HOLDING UP A LINE UNNECESSARILY. Not all operators do this, but most do.

So many ambulances are sent out when they do not need to be but then we need them for something very very serious and get told there is a wait of however many hours. It is not uncommon to be told there is a 20 hour wait. 8 hour waits for category 2 patients. Unacceptable.

They also need to be sending people to hospital of their own accord. The vast majority of people who call an ambulance are capable of making their own way there.

This is NOT a dig at the Control staff - you are bound by rules. However the rules are wrong. If you were given better training and able to think for yourselves the service you provide would be so much more efficient.

I had to call for an ambulance for DH in the week. He's currently going through chemo and was in such severe pain he couldn't move and keep blanking out. I called his cancer team at the hospital who told me to phone 999
Ambulance said 4-8 hours wait and someone may call me to get more information to decide whether or not to send an ambulance. Or maybe they won't call me and they won't send an ambulance. But she couldn't tell me if I would get a call or not. And if I would get an ambulance or not. That's what really upset me. Not knowing.
I live in a 3rd floor flat, DH is 6'4, I couldn't move him myself. It was awful.

I’ve only been on hold to 999 for an ambulance once, it was about 15 years ago, I was a teenager doing CPR on another kid, and was put on hold before I got through. Longest phone call of my life.

There's always a few minutes wait to get through now. Never used to be like that. But they aren't trained to triage calls. All they do is put you through to the relevant emergency service. Then there's another wait to get through to the ambulance service. They also can no longer stay on the line until the ambulance is there. They take your details and that's it. You wait again for the ambulance. Poor management of health conditions because we just can't get an appointment with a consultant to monitor underlying health conditions adds to the pressure on A and E departments.

Genuine question but do we call 999 more now than, say, 20-30 years ago? I used to think it was just for elderly people, serious accidents/car crashes and maybe very sick small children, but it seems to be used for a lot more now - overdoses, mental health crises etc

@Cuppasoupmonster I'd say people absolutely do call 999 way more often especially for police and ambulance. The reason being getting through to the non emergency numbers take time and people refuse to wait.

999 is for emergencies not a taxi to hospital/reporting a minor incident to police as some people use it. If the misuse of the system stopped it would help massively.

I work for the police, people contact us to report a fire because "they didn't want to bother the fire service" or to report what is typically a medical matter because "ambulance are busy"

No cheer to add. Sorry.

90 year old DGM with pre-existing seriously spinal injury/disability. Fell.
suspected broken hip. she waited 8 hours on the floor with no pain relief, wetting herself. We were advised she should not be moved.

when she got collected she then waited a other 4 hours outside a&e, then another 8 hours in a&e to have the fracture confirmed. She needed surgery.

she was told the surgery would be Monday, then cancelled. Tuesday, then cancelled. Weds, then cancelled. Thursday we were told she was so weak, the surgery may no longer be possible. The cause for her weakness was the delay to the surgery. She would die as a direct result of the operation being repeatedly postponed.

we went to talk to them. The only free space for a a consultant discussion was in a stock room.

she had the surgery next day and amazingly, is alive. But weaker, more fragile and more vulnerable.