Anyone else got DC applying for uni this year - beyond annoyed

[Lionlover11]

DD is 18 and applying for uni this year and the grades are literally insane. Good Russel groups
are asking for grades previously only oxbridge would ask for and former poly universities that previously would have been easier to get into have now shot up to 3 B’s. All because of covid deferrals. I’m absolutely livid on DD’s behalf that predicted of ABB (very good results imo) will not be enough to get her into a Russel group for the course she wants to do. It feels like this year group have suffered so much already because of the pandemic and now because of covid deferrals it’s bitten them on the backside again. I’m half considering telling DD to forget applying for this year, get the best a levels she can and just apply next year when hopefully the grades have eased off. Anyone else in the same boat?

Every place taken by an international student is a place taken away from UK students which ultimately pushes up entry requirements (and stress).
Oxford University is the top ranked UK and RG university in the UK. 23% of their students are international and their net profits at the end of the fiscal year (March 2022) we’re £93.6m. LET THAT SINK IN!

I feel we might be veering a little away from the problems of the OP’s daughter, who isn’t looking at either Imperial or Oxford as far as I can tell.

One of mine is doing well at a decent Russell Group uni with ABB at A-level, so it does depend strongly on competition for places on the specific course.

To be fair, that’s unusual though, so it needs to be quite a niche course with little uptake so they reduce to get bums seats.. Generally Russel group for most subjects are much higher. As witnessed by the ops kid.

@PauliString the point OP made was the grade criteria placed on Russel Group universities making A-Level expectations incredibly pressured and in some cases unattainable for UK students. Universities are businesses first and foremost and because the sheer number of applicants versus placements available is so out of kilter they can push up entry criteria and become quite selective. Universities tend to apply an element of leniency to international students as they pay so much more in tuition fees. UK university spaces are not infinite so every place taken by an international student is a place taken from a UK student. It’s incredibly unfair to our children.

I don’t agree with this the entry requirements is the same for both.

@Leafblowertime -
”Most universities in the UK are very welcoming to international students and actually have a higher acceptance rate for international students than domestic ones.
Universities are enrolling 40 per cent more overseas students than five years ago as they favour applicants from China and India. Vice-chancellors said that inadequate income from domestic tuition fees was forcing them to target overseas students, who pay more than twice as much for the same courses.”
22 Aug 2022

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-favour-foreign-students-to-bring-in-big-money-6fxnknsbn

OK @WifeMotherWorker

Universities are business first, education and research second, got it. And the funding crisis has nothing to do with anything, and these business first institutions are letting in international students because they bring in cash and nothing else, its all...shockingly .....down to foreigners.

Thanks for educating me, first class honours, Distinction at Masters, on this. I've told my partner, full funded PhD graduate and he was astonished to hear this.

When our children are rejected from a top flight uni, I will blame the foreigners taking their places.

University lecturer here.

My university loses thousands a year teaching a UK student, the income from international students (who are qualified as much as UK students by the way) does supplement UK students. Without them we'd have less UK students. You already know this from your posts, we don't get enough in funding or from UK fees.

If you think international students are too many, with the current funding model,
it will only increase.

I expect my university to increase the number of international students, it’s that or we shut up shop. OR we get a government that decided to invest in education for once. It’s the British people's choice. We choose not to.

Most of my colleagues believe this country is heading down the private route, like America, so your kids can look forward to international level of fees , so effectively even more than now, it will be the preserve of the rich or the very poor gifted scholarships.

The Ivy League has 5% international at undergrad, but fees of around 45 grand, it also has a pool of home students to choose from the size of Europe.

The only way UK students can be increased is (in the current funding model) a lifting of cap on fees, or more investment from the gov. Both are big no no's currently and have been for years.

It's so sad watching all this happen. Dur to reasons we are very well educated but low income - and reading threads this morning well aware that fovt isn't funding Higher Ed and that costs will go up, similarly the ambulance thread. It dies seem the givt is running it down to privatise which is ridiculous.

We can't afford 1000s on anything. Kids in grammar schools wanting to do uni and some complex health conditions in the family requiring a run down nhs.

A rich tory supporter will just not care and think they can afford it all. We can't.

"Every place taken by an international student is a place taken away from UK students"

Jesus. Don't let your Little Englander out too far, will you?

You'll have had it explained to you hopefully (maybe in short words so you understand) that almost all universities put international applicants on one table, and home applicants on another and take % from both.

If your child didn't get in, it's not because somebody from Canada pinched their place. It's because they weren't good enough. But if it helps you to accept that by blaming Johnny Foreigner, then crack on.

Many many students got higher grades than expected. I work in a college and many students acknowledge that their grades were inflated.
Not the case for your son perhaps, but for many

@WifeMotherWorker
There was an interesting thread in Higher Education a while back on the truth about all these foreigners. Lots of admissions people, lecturers etc posted on it. There were also a few people like you as well. Might be worth digging it out.

There was also a link to an official list of % of international students per university, ranging from 0.9% at Edge Hill to 44% at Buckingham.

Guess which one will probably have to close some courses over the next decade? Clue: won't be Buckingham.

I agree with others on managing expectations. Years ago I looked at RG unis for 2012 entry and ABB wouldn’t have made it, lowest was AAB, many wanted AAA

And Russell Group unis are NOT the be all and end all

Your dd's grades are good, not 'insanely' good. Other students have done better. It seems fair to me.

I hope very much RG not the be all and end all as my ds actively pursuing a non RG, with lower entry than his predicted grades as he likes their course and the passion they showed on open day. He did not get as excited at the 2 RG he visited.

I think too many students take A levels when BTEC is often a better option. Nottingham, Sheffield, Exeter for example all accept BTEC in place of A levels for some courses - in fact almost all universities do. My son would have struggled to get 3 grade C's at A level (4's and 5's at GCSE) but he received 5 offers from universities with his BTEC predictions of DDD (distinctions), including 2 which were asking for AAA at A level. He doesn't struggle with the work either as most degrees seem to be set out the same as BTEC. They are modular with elements of coursework and essays. Of course if you are applying for a degree where you need specific A levels then this isn't the answer, but if you are looking at business or something like that then it is an excellent alternative and really worth considering.

Exeter as an example for the BTEC route

What does she actually want to do? It was AAB for medicine at Manachester Uni in 2007 but many people who got in had AAA as did my brother who went in 2011. ABB is good grades but not considered great now, I got AAB in 2007. Grades reflect competition you will face and the baseline level of academics they expect you to come with. Any lower and the student might struggle to keep up with the intensity of the course. Look at prospectuses with her, she should be able to contact unis directly and her college will likely have student support services or similar that can help.

*Manchester even!

Universities are free to set their entry requirements and of course want the best students. Grades are set based on popularity of the course and it almost doesn't matter what they set; students are in competition with all the others. If there are 100 places available on a given course, they'll go to top 100 performers out of those interested, whether they all get straight As, or they have to drop down to three Bs.

I went to uni a couple of decades ago, and I recall being made a conditional AAA offer by a RG university.

Not really sure what's changed? They're competitive, so if they think they'll have enough applicants in one year, they can set their requirements high.

Came on the thread to say exactly this - if you care about getting a high paying job, employers care about the institution, not the course.

The reason is because many university degrees (taking out accredited ones like medicine, nursing etc) aren't standardised across the country, so it means the difficulty and rigour of the course depends only on who's teaching you. The top RG unis have the top academics, so a first in an English degree will require a wildly different level of skill from Oxbridge/RG Vs a less prestigious uni.

Lots of global firms (I’m in corporate finance) interview blind so have no idea which school and Uni the candidates went to so which Uni is becoming much less relevant

I was last involved with student applications at UG level within a Russell Group University just over a decade ago and we changed to AAA back then.