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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nurses, what result are you expecting from the strike?

111 replies

ImEasyLikeSundayMorning · 11/11/2022 18:50

At work we all assume it will be less than 17% because negotiation is better than strike.

One said the full 17%

Another said she would die of shock if we got 8%

What ate other nurses opinions?

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 12/11/2022 14:44

Sushi7 · 12/11/2022 12:33

Isn't the starting wage for a qualified nurse just over £27k? And then obviously increases with years of experience. I don’t think a regular worker at Aldi or McDonald’s earns that. I agree with @Hobnobsandbroomstick that working conditions for nurses needs a huge overhaul. Things need to improve to prevent burnout. I can’t believe that nurses have to pay for hospital parking and don’t always get a decent lunch break!

Plus significant enhancements on top for weekends, nights etc.

NeedAHoliday2021 · 12/11/2022 15:00

@Peekachoochoo love that you think we have job security! Our trust is “integrating” and currently I have fortnightly leaving dos. My own team should be in our consultation period over Christmas and find out if I have a job and what it’ll be.

Familydilemmas · 12/11/2022 15:07

NeedAHoliday2021 · 12/11/2022 15:00

@Peekachoochoo love that you think we have job security! Our trust is “integrating” and currently I have fortnightly leaving dos. My own team should be in our consultation period over Christmas and find out if I have a job and what it’ll be.

This. Every 3 years our contract goes to tender, every 3 years people get uncertain and leave because of the not knowing. Then you might all get transferred to a different company, or not all and so you need to reapply for your job. It’s mentally exhausting.

olympicsrock · 12/11/2022 15:08

I think the best offer will be 10%… anything less and the strike will go ahead

DamnUserName21 · 12/11/2022 16:46

Babyroobs · 12/11/2022 14:44

Plus significant enhancements on top for weekends, nights etc.

I don't think enhancements are as generous as they once were. And nurses are less inclined to work weekends and nights as bank when there are not enough doctors on, little to no senior support and staff shortages.

And 27k is indeed a good wage unless you live in the southeast with rents of over £1000 and may/may not have children, which is why some nurses are having to use foodbanks.

Plus why the fuck would anyone go into nursing (or stay in) with over 27K student loan debt + all the associated responsibility+ short staffing + poor working conditions + risk of abuse for £27, 000. It really isn't an attractive prospect.

BayCityTrollers · 12/11/2022 17:07

Shinyandnew1 · 12/11/2022 09:28

And as a precious top band 6 I essentially took a pay cut with loss of enhancements when I got promoted

Can you explain this? Why are Band 6 precious? Why did you take a pay cut to become a Bank 7?

It was a typo! Meant to be previous!

As a previous band 6, I worked unsocial hours, and weekends are less stressful and more clinical generally, less meetings and more patient focused. As a band 7 I am 9-5 Monday to Friday so no enhancements.

And by the end of the week I don’t have the energy for bank shifts.

DamnUserName21 · 12/11/2022 17:13

The pension and sick pay could be gold-plated but no one is going to stay in a job that overworks and burns them out, puts their registration at risk, and in which you can't afford to pay the bills and are at risk of sexual/physical/verbal/racist assault.

GreatBigBeautifulTommorow · 12/11/2022 17:20

I expect they will give nothing, allow us to strike and wait for the public to turn on us.

Hottimesahead · 12/11/2022 17:36

I am in healthcare but not a nurse. My union didn’t get a strike agreement. But nurse numbers are more powerful and I support the strike. Wish I could go on strike

if they get a pay rise we all do under agenda for change. We all need a pay rise. I am a higher grade than a few years ago and earn less now than top of my previous grade. I have more stress and work more hours in unpaid overtime to get things done. It’s tough and we need more pay to reflect it.

CoffeeWithCheese · 12/11/2022 17:43

NeedAHoliday2021 · 12/11/2022 10:07

I don’t think it’s just nurses struggling with under staffing and stress in the nhs. My team of 4 is now 2 and I’ve taken lots more responsibility with no additional pay. That’s what I see all around me. I also worked through the pandemic, long hours, weekends with no extra pay because I’m a band 7 it seems to be expected.

The glacial speed of NHS recruitment doesn't help with that particular one. I'm a relatively new band 5 in another healthcare profession and I should be working under a band 6 covering 2 area of my county (and geographically it's a bloody big county and I've got two of the larger patches).... I'm currently working (for the indefinite future) with no band 6, covering half the entire county including one geographical patch that people are known to refuse just because of its distance on its own! I have support I can yell on over Teams if I need advice, and although I take on some fairly complex cases, I do so because I enjoy doing them - but I shouldn't be covering the sheer patch area and concentration of cases that I am doing essentially solo. I'm doing it because the alternative is that cases don't get picked up and people end up in crisis situations - and because I love the job.

The band 6 is out to recruitment at the moment and I don't think they'll get many bites with the size of the advertised patch - which is nothing compared to what I'm actually covering.

The nurses covering our client group have a reputation for being too thinly spread and covering huge areas - but they go white in horror when they hear the area I'm doing!

Babyroobs · 12/11/2022 17:46

DamnUserName21 · 12/11/2022 16:46

I don't think enhancements are as generous as they once were. And nurses are less inclined to work weekends and nights as bank when there are not enough doctors on, little to no senior support and staff shortages.

And 27k is indeed a good wage unless you live in the southeast with rents of over £1000 and may/may not have children, which is why some nurses are having to use foodbanks.

Plus why the fuck would anyone go into nursing (or stay in) with over 27K student loan debt + all the associated responsibility+ short staffing + poor working conditions + risk of abuse for £27, 000. It really isn't an attractive prospect.

I agree. I was a Nurse for 35 years but it all became too much. I do a much easier job now for 25k a year. Less pay than Nursing but so much less stressful. I also found nursing to often be a bullying environment, I was constantly anxious. Even when I tried to re-enter the NHS at a much lower banded role last year I found the interviewing staff to be a bunch of rude, nasty people so will stay away I think !

NeedAHoliday2021 · 12/11/2022 17:47

@CoffeeWithCheese my dept was cut deliberately - 2 people left and I was allowed to back fill one temporarily with agency to see how it goes and then they made my boss redundant. New boss has huge remit so I’m isolated and unsupported. If only it was just delayed recruiting.

Flapjacker48 · 12/11/2022 17:51

The NHS/gov will not award any more than the whole NHS workforce in agenda for change bands get. There is zero change of their being a separate "nurses only" set of afc bands.

Gherkingreen · 12/11/2022 17:58

This particular phase of industrial action is about staffing, about making nursing attractive enough as a graduate profession of skilled, educated, experienced professionals to draw people in and remunerate them properly in order to retain.
It's about having enough staff in place to deliver safe care, it's about generating a health care system fit for the population now/future who are living longer with more complex health needs.
It's never, ever about about nurses being 'greedy'. It's SO much more than a pay rise.
Very likely nurses in NI will go on strike soon as legally they have to hold action very quickly after voting to do so. Tricky thing is there's currently no Executive in NI so even if they wanted to give nurses a pay rise, they'd need to leap through political hoops swiftly to assemble the Executive.
It happened last time nurses in NI went on strike in 2019 - maybe it'll happen again...

Hopeandglory · 12/11/2022 18:13

My eldest DD is band 6 research nurse, worked through pandemic as band 5 icu nurse. Youngest DD has just started apprenticeship in a care home at 17 with just GCSE's guess who's take home pay is the highest !

Lannielou · 12/11/2022 18:54

I hope we get a proper payrise after years of austerity. It's unlikely with the current government who don't give a shit.

I'd like proper investment in nursing and proper liveable bursaries to encourage people into nursing

QuebecBagnet · 12/11/2022 19:04

If there is a pay rise (and I do hope there is) there will be a knock on effect for recruiting lecturers for healthcare courses. Lecturing pays at university rates which is less than agenda for change nhs rates. I went into lecturing 5 years ago and took a pay cut. The disparity in pay has got greater in the last 5 years to the extent that universities are struggling to recruit. The last two times posts were advertised nobody applied and I’m now seeing adverts for lecturers where you now no longer to be a nurse to teach on a nursing degree! 🤷‍♀️

scoobycute · 12/11/2022 19:31

Ninananna · 12/11/2022 10:35

So much for nursing being a vocation and not just a job. I have spent many hours over the years by the side of a sick relative. I have seen elderly patients fall out of bed unnoticed, emergency buzzers completely ignored by nurses just chatting, patients left for hours on the lavatory unable to get themselves back to bed, relatives ignored by gaggles of nurses more interested in gossiping, night nurses on their phone for hours to boyfriends, patients too afraid to complain because the nurses would take it out on them later. Patients dinners left on the side unable to feed themselves. Nurses go into the town in their uniforms and straight back on to the wards without a worry about contamination. That is just a snapshot of observations. The caring profession, certainly not the majority. Striking is blackmail and you should never give in to blackmailers.

🙄🙄🙄

scoobycute · 12/11/2022 21:07

@Sushi7

Starting nurses salary in Northern Ireland is £25,655 (not above £27k!)

You can drive a truck for Tesco for £26,495 in Northern Ireland.

I work in theatres and our ICU department pays our nurses a measly Band 5 wage for their specialist skill set.

Nurses are quite literally dropping out every week now and moving abroad to the states or Australia.

There is absolutely no incentive to work for the already crippled NHS here. It is unbelievably DIRE....

bakebeans · 16/11/2022 23:18

nhs staff received a poxy pay rise of 4.75% but was probably less when u add up the pension contributions. Then yesterday this news was announced?
so a 10% pay rise will be given to everyone but yet they cannot give 10% to NHS staff! I fear for the future! Who wants to work in healthcare let alone start with a mountain of debt behind you

Couldn't post link but is all over the news

Nurses, what result are you expecting from the strike?
LionsandLambs · 17/11/2022 07:12

bakebeans · 16/11/2022 23:18

nhs staff received a poxy pay rise of 4.75% but was probably less when u add up the pension contributions. Then yesterday this news was announced?
so a 10% pay rise will be given to everyone but yet they cannot give 10% to NHS staff! I fear for the future! Who wants to work in healthcare let alone start with a mountain of debt behind you

Couldn't post link but is all over the news

I agree with you.

but, just to correct, not all NHS staff got 4.75%, just the lowest paid. For me on 8a (clinical with lower-middle management responsibility) it was 2.6%. It basically just covered the 2% NI increase.

Colacoco · 17/11/2022 07:52

Im ahp but also balleted to strike.

For me its not about myself getting more money, but my team being able to recruit and retain staff. We simply cant recruit there are hundreds of empty nurse posts with budgets attatched to them that we simply cant fill. My team used to have approximately 12 nurses, we now have 5.

2 of those will retire in the next 5 years, 2 more in the next 10. We have one nurse who isnt over 50. The age itself isnt the issue and its reflected across our admin, ahp, support workers etc that people are retiring far quicker than people are joining the nhs. Looking around my office its difficult to imagine how it will be staffed in 15 years as there simply isnt young people joining

Whilst i would like more money (who wouldnt?!) What is the thing that would most improve my job satisfaction is more staff. We are covering workloads of multiple staff, and its stressful.

I repeatedly put the same add out but no one responds. I cant change the job duties, I cant offer more money. The job is unattractive because the money doesnt pay enough for the stress. Its hard to change the stress levels without more people.

There needs to be improvements in the way that nursing, and health care courses are funded to get those staff trained up and in posts ready for the massive wave of retirement coming (especially in mental health where a specific type of historic pension now comes into play)

We need to attract people to the career, and keep those currently pulling their hair out in it. The way to do that for now, has to be more money.

My hope is that with a fairer wage then staffing will stabalise a bit, people will leave less and then we can get to work on increasing our staffing and attracting new people and making the job less stressful

bakebeans · 17/11/2022 21:40

@LionsandLambs I'm band 7 but still
clinical. I think I'll stop where I am! 😔

momlette · 17/11/2022 21:47

I don’t think they will give anything at all. Not a bean.

Avrenim · 17/11/2022 22:00

Not a nurse personally but work in healthcare and lots of family and friends are registered and support professionals - as others have said, this isn't just about the pay (although if the increments system hadn't been amended in the last couple of years to stop annual increments and make them less frequent then most NHS staff would be on higher wages; also if you leave the NHS and have a break of longer than a few months no matter how experienced you are you'll almost certainly get stuck at the bottom of the scale again. Pensions are worse than a few years ago and far from the gold plated drivel the Daily Mail spouts.

Many of those nursing agencies are owned by Tories or donate to the Tories so have been creaming it in for years.

My guess is that after a lot of toing and froing the government will offer healthcare professions only 5% , phased over 2 or 3 years.

In the meantime the government will continue to import cheap nurses from places like Nepal, Kenya, and India - and others on the World Health Organisation red list (as in their exports of medical professionals are so high we shouldn't be recruiting in such numbers).

If minimum staffing levels are mandated during the strike, many units will actually be better staffed than at present.