To not send my DD back

[ImNotGoth]

DD 8 has been living with her dad for 4yrs, this was an amicable arrangement between her dad and I when we split, for many reasons, she comes every half term as they live down in Cornwall and I live up In Birmingham.

When she came to me in October half term it was clear she wasn’t being looked after correctly, basically he had been neglecting her needs and she was filthy. I’ve been raising other issues with him and he always says he’s “on it” but I fear it’s all been lip service. She has disclosed to me their house is a tip too. I have spoken to him and it turns out he’s having a mental health crisis and is in the middle of taking new medication for it.

Now as her mum I can’t send her back to this. However he is absolutely kicking off at me threatening me with authorities and all kinds, and I understand he feels like I’m taking her away but I don’t think he understands the seriousness of what’s going on, this neglect seemingly has been hidden from me and has been going on for quite a while with him not asking for help when he’s been struggling, there are other issues too such because I’m convinced she’s autistic, as are my other children and myself. He is burying his head in the sand over this imo and hasn’t been proactive at all, she’s behind in school, she says she has no friends.

I don’t know what I’m asking for her, just some support and to tell me I’m absolutely doing the right thing here, because I feel incredibly guilty for many reasons and I can feel myself going into an internal meltdown with worry and stress, when I have to be strong.

For a PP the ASD runs on my side, I’m autistic and so are my other daughters.

It's hard to believe you agree to live so far away from DD (8 - at the time only 4?) to prioritise the needs of your older DD, but I can appreciate the situation must have been complicated.

I think you need legal advice, and potentially Social Services involvement.

Well this is a shit show. Sort it out you two. She needs looking after and spending the last 4 years away from her mum won’t have done her any good. Christ

@EarringsandLipstick it wasn’t really for my older DD benefit it was more to protect my then 4 year old from the violent meltdowns really.

Would you have said that if she were the dad who took the daughter every holiday time because it was the safest option? Probably not.

Poor little girl this is so sad.

@Soproudoflionesses I agree. Which is why I’m asking for advice and support here to make things better for her.

You shouldn't just refuse to return her. You should take her back home. If you want to change your existing arrangement you should either come to an agreement with her dad or go to court for more access or to change residence. How would you feel if the tables were turned?

Can you talk to him about a temporary stay with you until his mental health improves. Take is a step at a time, I know it is not easy with needing to attend school ect

He can have help via SS/community mental health/related charities to get the house under control, mine was similar when I had a health issue appear which caused a MH crisis. I needed help and support not having my daughter taken away further destabilising us both. Tbf I did always make sure SHE was well fed and clean, but I was going through the process of diagnosis with spinal arthritis and physically couldn’t bend down, it took all I could to make sure she was well cared for. The house went to hell because I had no other support, I had a near breakdown because the mess and constant pain made me feel like a failure or a mother. Local community team helped me make a plan to improve things and a befriender charity helped as someone came over to help keep DD occupied while I did a few chores (they couldn’t actually do the chores for me but I suspect some areas SS support for that does exist).

Being a lone parent with no support is exhausting. Have a bit of empathy for him too, no one chooses to live in mess, usually it indicates the need for extra help. If things are amicable you could check for what help might exist where he is.

Oh I have 100% sympathy for him I promise I’ve offered to pay people to come in and clean it up and I’ve offered to come and do it myself too. He doesn’t seem keen, probably embarrassed. I’ve had a close family member in his position I know how it is.

Of course. I am not judging just gooe you get it sorted between you xx

Whilst I agree with her welfare being priority, I would say it's time for formal intervention.

Let's say you keep her. Great. Then what? Stop contact? No, of course not. So she goes off to visit dad, then he does same.

Think of it from her point of view. She needs a settled structure. Whatever that may be.

You sound very reasonable. Can you go and meet him, talk in person? Say what you have said here? You must have had a fairly decent communication at some stage?

I would contact a family lawyer and children's services for advice urgently and see if you can get an emergency court hearing. I think if you don't have a court order you Should keep hold of her as her needs and her right not to be neglected Trump any rights her father has. Don't do anything without legal advice though and keep lines of communication open with her dad. Arrange contact regularly even if just by phone or zoom.

it wasn’t really for my older DD benefit it was more to protect my then 4 year old from the violent meltdowns really.

I really hate when posters on MN make snap judgments about a complex situation they can't really understand. So I'm trying not to do that.

But I can't imagine agreeing to your tiny DD being moved so far away, for any reason, and giving up day to day involvement in her life at such a young age.

If no separation had occurred, you would have had to manage both DD's needs in some way.

This sounds really serious. Your DD is behind educationally, possible undiagnosed ASD & neglected and dirty. You've had concerns for a while without really resolving them. Several posters have made suggestions for action - what are you going to do.

The poor little girl.

I'm not judging at all, @ImNotGoth , it's a very difficult situation - family dynamics & all - I so hope you can get it all settled amicably to everyone's satisfaction. My best wishes to you. xx

I have got some sympathy with dad tbh. He is a single dad to an autistic 8yo and battling his own mental health issues.

Have you actually seen inside his house?

In terms of her personal hygiene, it can be very difficult to persuade autistic young people to cut their hair, cut their nails, clean their teeth etc. But I'm sure you know that.

I suppose it is about establishing whether this is a household with different standards to you, or a household where the child is neglected. But keeping her after a visit, unless she's in danger of course, is wrong. Can the two of you really not work out a solution that works in her best interests? Presumably she's now out of school?

I agree that personal hygiene is often an issue for youngsters who are autistic. I’m still battling daily with my 16 year old over this. However it sounds like at least getting on the diagnostic pathway needs to be a priority here to start getting DDs needs met.
If dad is unwell mentally, it’s no surprise that he may not have it in him to start that journey - as you will know OP, it’s a long and arduous path.
It sounds like it may well be in her best interests to return to you so that you can take that on, along with starting to put things in place to help her thrive.
I can also understand how her dad may feel unhappy about that.
I think PPs advice to go down there with her and assess the situation sounds sensible. Presumably she will need some of her belongings anyway, so it would be a good chance to weigh things up.
Is there any scope for dad moving nearer to you now his family support has fallen through? You sound very level headed, and like you are trying to do the best for everyone in tough circumstances.

@EarringsandLipstick it was a dire situation and if I’d have kept her with me then I would have likely ended up having her removed anyway, because the situation was too dangerous, it was literally the best thing in the worst situation, obviously I don’t expect everyone to completely understand that but until you’re in that environment I don’t think you really understand it, it was awful I felt guilty from the minute it happened until this moment in time, I don’t think that guilt will ever leave tbh.

Shes currently here with me, happy and well cared for, although obviously needing to be in school but I am homeschooling her with work given by her teacher. I’m going to get legal advice before I decide anything, and speak to my local social services to see what their suggestions are. I’ve also told her dad just now we need to meet in person asap, it’s hard because I have no babysitters so it’s got to be worked around.

I only want to do the best by her, unfortunately being ASD myself isn’t easy at the best of times because my thinking can be rather black and white so getting more advice and opinions is exactly what I wanted from this thread.

Wow OP this sounds incredibly hard all round. If your ex could move closer that would be a big help in terms of you looking after her without having to withhold contact which will probably cause your co-parenting relationship to break down at a time when he is mentally unwell. If he could still see her without her staying with him I can imagine that would help the trust. If you push for him to move closer that might help him see that there is no malicious intent behind what you are doing, which is how an anxious and depressed person might view what's happening to them.

Have you been able to speak to her school? It's very poor they've had no concerns about her.

And actually OP since there is no court order in place then I think you are doing the right thing but make it clear at all times to your ex the reason you are doing it and I suggest putting it in writing. Although overly formal you need it to be seen that this is purely with your Dad's best interests at heart should he go to court to gain access.

I'm glad to hear your DD is in a happier home now and I hope your ex's situation improves for an easy solution for you all.

Was this decision made alongside health/social care professionals involved with elder DD? Could you not ask their advice? How are they together just now?