Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not give the full picture on this work matter?

25 replies

carryonluv · 10/11/2022 13:35

Joined a new team in Jan. Another lady joined in Feb is a more junior role to me. She's not my subordinate directly but does work for me on some projects.

I tend to keep life and work very separate but she joined the same sports team as me and we bonded through that.

She's had a really tough time recently in her personal life.

Her work hasn't been great. I find her quite hard to work with and she needs a lot of development (I know I'm not alone in thinking that).

She's asked me for some year end feedback and I'm really torn.

I can give her some really constructive (but, let's face it, negative) feedback or I can just write good stuff and move on. It's not anonymous. She'll see it.

I'm so torn. I know she's had a tricky time with some family issues, and I do consider her a friend.

I know her manager won't necessarily buy it if I write nothing but good things though. We're a pretty close-knit team and there's a general awareness of some of the issues.

OP posts:
MollieMarie · 10/11/2022 13:36

Why can't you write a combination of both?

BIWI · 10/11/2022 13:37

You need to be honest. Giving negative feedback may seem unfair, but actually it's even more unfair to not tell the truth. Obviously you need to do it sympathetically and in a constructive way though.

carryonluv · 10/11/2022 13:38

MollieMarie · 10/11/2022 13:36

Why can't you write a combination of both?

I can! (And would of course add the positives).

I'm just concerned about the development points. I don't want to make her feel worse while she's already down.

OP posts:
44PumpLane · 10/11/2022 13:39

Say it wouldn't be ethical for you to provide an evaluation for her due to your personal/out of work relationship.

This would be a reasonable way to get out of an awkward spot.

Defiantlynot41 · 10/11/2022 13:53

It's kind to be clear - I think Brene brown said that!

I've found this website and book to be really helpful as an approach (start with the dog named Belvedere video at the foot of the page) www.radicalcandor.com/

I'd also say, if you truly are a friend, what would you say if you smother it in platitudes for now and in a years time she comes to you and says "you knew this was a problem, why on earth did you not tell me, a true friend would have"?

carryonluv · 10/11/2022 13:56

Defiantlynot41 · 10/11/2022 13:53

It's kind to be clear - I think Brene brown said that!

I've found this website and book to be really helpful as an approach (start with the dog named Belvedere video at the foot of the page) www.radicalcandor.com/

I'd also say, if you truly are a friend, what would you say if you smother it in platitudes for now and in a years time she comes to you and says "you knew this was a problem, why on earth did you not tell me, a true friend would have"?

See this is my thought. I know feedback is a gift and the comments I have are valuable.

It just feels so awkward.

OP posts:
theemmadilemma · 10/11/2022 13:58

Be truthful.

I manage someone I've worked with for 16 odd years, managed for , and who I consider a close personal friend as well. She's had some personal and health issues in that time that have meant her performance dropped in those times.

I made allowances for those and she's always bounced back. But not discussing the performance issues at all would have been disingenuous and she would have known it as much as I did. As it happens she's always enjoyed seeking confirmation from me that she's back to her usual performance levels when she's got herself back on track.

theemmadilemma · 10/11/2022 13:58

*Managed for 8 years.

Danikm151 · 10/11/2022 13:58

Do a feedback sandwich. Good point, bad point, good point

Quag2286 · 10/11/2022 14:00

Give her a shit sandwich.

Good - bad - good.

Princessglittery · 10/11/2022 14:00

Difficult one as you have a relationship outside work.

Obviously give credit for things done well, if you can pick an example of time they did something right (normally don’t do right) reference that example and say do more of x.

Then use areas for development, use a main issue and one minor issue. Turn them into positives e.g. it would be beneficial if you were able to do xyz and here is a training course, guidance etc.

picklemewalnuts · 10/11/2022 14:09

Work out what's most important, what she really needs to know. Then phrase that in as positive way as possible. Confine yourself to one or two areas.

You're A, B, and C are excellent because of your eye for detail. You would benefit from paying attention to the emotional well-being of your team.

You have excellent soft skills as demonstrated by A, B,C. You would benefit from paying close attention to detail and habitually proof reading your work.

Defiantlynot41 · 10/11/2022 14:13

I'm so not a fan of the shit sandwich approach!

A more positive way is to use "even better if ..." to introduce other, more effective approaches than she is currently using.

Or use "and" instead of "but" eg instead of "I appreciated the way you double checked before approaching the new client BUT you should be able to do this on your own initiative now", say "I appreciated the way you double checked before approaching the new client AND I think you're ready to do this on your own now"

And always frame it that you're saying it because you want her to succeed/fulfil potential, not as a criticism

LemonsAndCherries · 10/11/2022 14:13

Don't be mean. Nobody, and I mean nobody needs a colleague (or even worse, supposed friend) giving them negative feedback, especially when they are having a hard time in their personal life. It's work. Just write something pleasant. I'm sure she is aware of her deficiencies.

Don't kid yourself that you are doing her any kind of favour by writing negative things.

NiceGarden · 10/11/2022 14:16

Why not gently discuss it with her beforehand. Say these are your good points and these are areas where you can improve.
If she doesn't like the areas to improve then remove them.
At least you've been honest and made her aware but without affecting her rating or your friendship.

MollieMarie · 10/11/2022 14:19

LemonsAndCherries · 10/11/2022 14:13

Don't be mean. Nobody, and I mean nobody needs a colleague (or even worse, supposed friend) giving them negative feedback, especially when they are having a hard time in their personal life. It's work. Just write something pleasant. I'm sure she is aware of her deficiencies.

Don't kid yourself that you are doing her any kind of favour by writing negative things.

When did she say she's going to be mean and write negative things? She's talking about writing constructive criticism. If someone can't handle constructive criticism they shouldn't take on a corporate career that revolves around all sorts of different feedback.

bbnotwo · 10/11/2022 14:21

There is also the approach that you can encourage her to think of her own performance. i.e. "How do you think you are getting on?". She may already know some of the weaknesses and if she brings them up you can help her address them.

MintChocCornetto · 10/11/2022 14:27

bbnotwo · 10/11/2022 14:21

There is also the approach that you can encourage her to think of her own performance. i.e. "How do you think you are getting on?". She may already know some of the weaknesses and if she brings them up you can help her address them.

I think this is a good approach.

I was also going to suggest the Radical Candour book - I found it very useful. No one likes giving negative feedback, but it is necessary for the healthy functioning of a team. I imagine her performance issues are being masked by others to some extent - this can be helpful in the short term, everyone understands some people have difficulties and don't mind helping. But if this continues into the long term the people dealing with the issues are going to feel short changed and resentful. As a manager, you have to deal with that before it becomes a problem.

LemonsAndCherries · 10/11/2022 14:59

@MollieMarie

Ok then, let me be clearer. Nobody coping with issues in their personal life needs 'constructive criticism' on the work front.

Let the poor woman be.

We work to live, not the other way around. Don't add to the woman's woes.

Don't kid yourself that she'll think 'oh how helpful that you've given me constructive criticism, so helpful, thanks so much.' I'm sure she knows. Helpful is giving guidance and support/mentoring informally rather than via a formal performance assessment process.

maddening · 10/11/2022 15:00

It is fully possible to give constructive feedback so it is not totally negative.

LemonsAndCherries · 10/11/2022 15:00

Btw I say this as someone with a 'corporate career' as you put it!

MollieMarie · 10/11/2022 15:01

LemonsAndCherries · 10/11/2022 15:00

Btw I say this as someone with a 'corporate career' as you put it!

Seek a different career then

maddening · 10/11/2022 15:02

However- none of this should be a surprise to her - good management should mean that an employee knows exactly where they are, it should not wait for end of month and especially not for end of year.

LemonsAndCherries · 10/11/2022 15:55

@MollieMarie

I'm very happy in my career thanks and earn a very good salary.

I've received fantastic mentoring before and, I hope, given it. That's very different to contributing to a formal performance review and providing negatives (that you'd call constructive criticism) that adds to someone's already bad year.

If the OP really thinks of herself as a friend, she won't be negative.

ChonkyRabbit · 06/06/2025 18:36

44PumpLane · 10/11/2022 13:39

Say it wouldn't be ethical for you to provide an evaluation for her due to your personal/out of work relationship.

This would be a reasonable way to get out of an awkward spot.

I'd do that. It's her manager's job to give her feedback and worry about her development, not yours.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page