To wonder what happens to HCA pay?

[musicalfrog]

Will they also receive a payrise if nurses do?

They work just as hard (albeit without the level of responsibility) and are on the lowest NHS pay grade.

Good luck to the strikers in any case!

Are HCA in the same Union and striking too?

They’re not on the lowest NHS pay grade. I don’t disagree they deserve a pay rise too, however.

There isn't actually that much difference in pay between a HCA and a nurse given that the training really isn't comparable, never mind the responsibility.

Most HCAs I've worked with are now a Band 3. There really needs to be a bigger difference in pay compared to a Band 5. It's a very different job.

Yes they are @Putonyourshoes there is no band 1 any more. At least in our area.

Agree re training @MandUs sorry forgot to mention that.

Similar issue in schools. Teachers are all getting a good pay rise but it doesn't include support staff who also work their arses off for much lower salaries.

How these organisations expect people to be able to pay their (increasing) bills I don't know. It's exploitative.

I really hope it will impact all NHS workers on the ground (earning under a threshold)

Yes @EmmaDilemma5 I agree with this! And hours are usually reduced in schools too (lunch time assistants for example)

Not where I work. I can’t be specific on here but the only difference in day to day tasks our band 3’s do compared to a band 5 are drugs.

Where I work Band 3 HCA would do personal care, some do basic obs (though they often do them badly as the science behind it hasn't been learned), a few might be able to do venepuncture, cannulation and catheters. Maybe ECGs if they work in A&E. They would never do meds (and that's a very big responsibility), they don't do care plans and wider assessments, they don't have the same life support training or extended skills that are included in the new nursing curriculum. And very importantly they aren't registered professionals who are legally responsible for the care they provide. The Band 5 nurses are responsible for any care delegated to the Band 3s so I would say that is a massive difference that needs to be reflected in pay.

I'm not saying that HCAs shouldn't eat more. I just think the difference in training and legal responsibilities needs to be reflected in pay and right now it's not.

Or even ear more...

Or earn more? 😁

😅 Yes, earn.

Yes.

I've been qualified as a nurse for nearly a decade: nurses pay is not seperate to the rest of the NHS staff. When there is an NHS pay rise, pretty much everyone who works for the NHS on the banding pay scale gets it. Receptionists, HCAs, physios, paramedics etc. Not the doctors because they have their own pay structure. And not the cleaning, catering and portering staff because they've been contracted out to private companies (at my hospital).

The announcement today about strike action is just from the ballot from the Royal College of Nursing; there are still ballots to come back from other unions like UNISON, British Medical Association, Unite, Chartered Society of Physiotherapy, Royal College of Midwives and GMB. This is not just about nurses pay, it's about NHS pay in general.

Most HCAs in my hospital are on band 2. One of them worked out a few years ago that they would be better off working in any supermarket chain, which is a bit depressing.

HCAs are eligible to join the RCN if they want to.

I am a registered nurse but am a member of UNISON because it was cheaper when I joined, and offers better legal support than the RCN.

Thank you @Hobnobsandbroomstick that's really interesting.

Yes, Aldi pays more per hour I discovered recently. But more HCAs are now being recruited because of the shortage of nurses and midwives. I feel some job creep coming on...

The majority of HCAs are band 2, which is the lowest. Band 1 doesn't exist anymore.

Search "healthcare assistant" jobs in England on NHS jobs, and there are 402 band 2 jobs, and 373 band 3 jobs. All the HCAs on the wards in the hospital where I work are a band 2, which is a really rubbish wage for the work they do.

Do you mean the "new" Nursing Associate role? Where HCAs can train to become a band 4 Nursing Associate in two years? It's similar to the old State Enrolled Nurse. But yes, it does seem like downgrading as Nursing Associates can do basically the same role as a registered nurse in the hospital where I work, and be paid a band less. But then the band 5 is still technically responsible for them.

I feel like the pay hasn't kept up with the responsibility as nursing jobs have changed.

HCAs now do the "caring" that used to be what the traditional nurses did back in the day. Nurses are now doing so much more and have higher qualifications than in the past. All these roles have had an upshift in responsibilities and skills that just isn't reflected in the way. If we want highly qualified staff to look after our sick (which is beneficial in terms of safety) then that needs to be reflected in pay. Of course it doesn't help that nursing in the UK is still mainly a female profession so we are being told that it is a vocation and we shouldn't be in it for the money. This would be so different if we had mainly male nurses.

Pay! I'm clearly too tired tonight to check what I'm writing.

I'm would have guessed that you are the band 3 in this scenario, but you've worded it as if you are the band 5.

Trying to think of an area where the only difference between band 3 and 5 is that they can give drugs. Guessing not a ward. Curious.

Definitely not. I'm being pressured to do the none medical prescribing course atm, while staying on a band 6 salary. No thank you! Though even at band 7 it wouldn't be worth it.

Unfortunately not ... I think all healthcare workers deserve a pay rise and perhaps the nurses strike will pave the way for this. I've been a band 3 HCA for 5 years and a doctor for 5 years. Believe it or not but I got paid more as a bank HCA working on a Sunday than I did in my first year as a doctor (£14ph)! We all work very hard and it is definitely taken advantage of. Hope you are keeping well.

If the nurses achieve a payrise so will everyone else on the banding system. Although potentially they could argue that the lower bands have had a higher percent payrise already. The band 2s had somewhere around a 9-10% payrise. So if in some crazy world a deal was struck and they settled on say 8% the band 2/3 support staff probably wouldn't get a rise because they could argue it's over this threshold already.

Any pay rise awarded to nurses will have to apply to everyone on AFC.

I'd like to see HCA re banded to a band 3 min.

Argh I really hate the percentage rise as a way of making it 'fair' it really doesn't! In reality it only ever increases the gap between highest and lowest paid. If we were being truly fair then payrises would be given as solid amounts not percentages.

I disagree about flat rates being fairer. We've got a flat rate offer in Scotland. Works out at about 4% for B7s and 11% for B2s. Now I dion't grudge them B3s their 11% but we're struggling as it is to retain experienced, senior staff who are already feeling undervalued, and this disincentivises these people to stay or to go for promotion (not much reward for much more responsibility).
Their costs of living are rising just as much as the B2s.