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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand benefits of £7k a month!

476 replies

CoastalWave · 08/11/2022 21:19

Awful story in the paper today (apologies, Daily Mail! But I'm sure it's in others)

Beyond distressing what has happened to the children (and the dogs) and I'm delighted this pair have been jailed.

But what also stood out, was the comment that they received £7000 a month in benefits.

How?

When my DH lost his job during cover and we only had my part time wage to live on, we were told that £1k a month was absolutely fine for a family of 4 to live on and we were entitled to nothing. Zero. Nada. Out of that £1k a month was our £600 mortgage, £200 council tax, £150 gas/electric etc etc. Basically there was no bloody chance we could live on £1k a month. We lost all of our savings and we're still paying back the debt we accrued now.

How do scumbags like this even just get handed that amount of money per month? And moreover, no one is bloody checking up on them clearly. Those poor children.

link

Can someone please enlighten me as to how these even happens/is allowed? What on earth is £7k benefits made up of? Are all families with 7 kids and not working getting £7k a month because if they are I'm sacking off work and popping out a few more children.

OP posts:
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6
Harrysnippleno3 · 09/11/2022 08:50

Changerofthename1 · 09/11/2022 08:47

The disability benefits is the game changer if you were ordinary people making a claim you wouldn’t get anywhere near that and yes some of their income could well be earnt wages. The judge was not criticising the source of this money just what it was spent on.

The money was not wage. It was benefits.

bigdecisionstomake · 09/11/2022 08:52

goldsparklyChocolate · 08/11/2022 22:10

The majority of that £7k was probably for rent as well but nobody ever criticises the landlords - charging extortionate rents and very clearly not inspecting or keeping the property well looked after !

Show quote history

Only on MN could this be the landlord's fault when the people in question were homeowners...

ClaudineClare · 09/11/2022 08:57

If you are claiming disability , and you're genuine, why on earth would you have a problem with a quick visit to check how everything is going say 6 months after your first payment? Is it helping? How are you getting on etc?

Why do people on disability benefits need checking up on? In case their disability has suddenly vanished?

Applying for PIP etc. is a horrible experience. It forces the applicant to focus on all the negative aspects of their life. To have someone pop around every six months to drag it all up again would be a kind of mental torture.

ClaudineClare · 09/11/2022 09:05

CoastalWave · 08/11/2022 22:44

I've just said I have zero problem, zero, with HMRC questioning my income and wanting proof etc in order that I've paying the correct taxes. Actually laughable to think i'm even able to be creative with the level of money I earn but I take your point that some self employed people may do so. Every single penny i earn goes into my business account and is invoiced.

On the flip side you are actually being given money , free money, to help with whatever disability you have. Presumably that money is to make your life easier -= so maybe pay for adaptations to your home, pay for therapy, medicines, I don't know - whole host of things it could genuinely be used towards to assist with the fact you have claimed it in the first place. Obviously it totally depends on your disability. I have a friend for eg who claims for her child with ADHD ( I don't actually claim for my child although it now seems I might as well, as everyone else does!) and uses the money to pay for karate classes for him - so fully, trackable. However, it appears that she could use that money to pay for her own bloody nails to be done each month and no one would actually give a shit?! That to be seems madness.

Why shouldn't you be checked to see where the money you have been given is going and how it's helping? Surely if you need that extra money, it's easy to show where the money is going?

Show quote history

The ableism in this post is breathtaking.

Harrysnippleno3 · 09/11/2022 09:06

@bigdecisionstomake

Only on MN could this be the landlord's fault when the people in question were homeowners...

Wee they?

Harrysnippleno3 · 09/11/2022 09:06

*were

dammit88 · 09/11/2022 09:20

PinkFrogss · 08/11/2022 21:53

Why are you more shocked and upset at the benefit payments than the neglect and abuse OP?

This. Sums up our country really.

ClaudineClare · 09/11/2022 09:26

illtellyouwhatiwantwhatireallyreallywant · 09/11/2022 07:19

How exactly do you decide what money coming out of someone's account is ok to pay for karate but not for nails? Are you suggesting someone on disability can't ever have anything other than things that assist them?

Sounds like you want to punish disabled people. What a bizarre take on a situation where a number of children were severely abused.

Disabled people in reciept of benefits should only ever live grim, joyless lives. They must only ever spend their money on food (basic, no treats and certainly no alcohol) and utilities. No hair cuts, no pampering, no meals out, no holidays. Also, they should not be allowed to own proper cars. They should only be allowed those three wheeled things that used to be provided.

I agree with a pp about the Johnson family benefits cheats.

Seymour5 · 09/11/2022 09:41

I have no issue with benefits going to people with disabilities, as adults they have every right to spend their income as they see fit. Life must be hard enough when there are mobility or communication issues, chronic pain etc., without having to live on the breadline.

What I do have issues with is parents whose child qualifies for disability payments to improve their quality of life, said child is way down their priority list. This case is an extreme example, those poor children’s lives have been hideous, more than money will be needed now to give them a decent future, the damage sounds pretty severe.

I wish the topic could be discussed without accusations of benefit bashing any time abuse of the system is mentioned.

Original poster
CoastalWave · 09/11/2022 09:50

Harrysnippleno3 · 08/11/2022 23:49

The difference is it is your money. The Op is talking about adults who were getting money on behalf of their children. That’s where the checks should be.

Oh well if it helps I get high rate CDP for DD too.

But let's not pretend OP was just talking about money given for children. OP was talking about everyone.

OP was absolutely talking about the children.

To anyone disabled on this thread who has taken offence, there really is no need. If you need it, you need it. No need to start shouting obscenities.

OP posts:
Backtofuture3 · 09/11/2022 09:51

Seems to be a trend of people these days to totally deny reality if reality is a little unpleasant. But reality is reality and it comes back to slap them hard.

Liz Truss experienced that slap much quicker than most, and the country watched.

Reality is that benefits is just state-enforced charity. Everyone is forced to pay a fraction of their earnings towards the charitable donations for the less fortunate.

Net benefit/charity receivers should be grateful to net donors, as their charity is what's keeping them fed, clothed and off the street. It's just good manners, and good manners is the only thing that net donors request in exchange for their hard-earned money.

Alternatively they can behave as though they are entitled to the charity of others, and they will alienate net donors to the point where laws will change to reduce forced donations, like in most of the rest of the world. If you think net benefit receivers have it tough in this country, you will be aghast at how much room to fall there really is.

baroqueandblue · 09/11/2022 09:52

No need to start shouting obscenities.

Given the tone of your previous posts, that comment is gaslighting passive aggression.

As you were, OP

Greennetting · 09/11/2022 09:53

This is about child abuse not benefit fraud right? I mean you are more concerned about the child abuse than trying to imply that they might be fraudulently claiming benefits (and given the court case they have been through it would have been thrown up if they were fraudulently claiming)

Well in which case most children are abused by their parents and relatives. So I'm proposing that social services visit every child's house once every six months. They go through your finances to check you can support your children, then inspect your house and check what food you have in, and make sure you are looking after them properly.

Then next, children are also often abused by new partners of their parents. Which means if you get a new partner you have to report it and both of you have to undergo an inspection by social services. And then ongoing regular inspections.

Now both of those things would probably flag up cases of child abuse quicker. But funnily enough you only think disabled people need checks to make sure they aren't abusing their children.

Also, because you don't seem clear on the maths, given how low the rate of benefit fraud is, it would cost the taxpayer significantly more for these 6 months checks than it would to continue with the current very low rate of fraud (and again, this case is not a case of benefit fraud)

If you really want to beat fraud that would have a real financial impact look at tax fraud. That's where the money is.

Greennetting · 09/11/2022 09:55

CoastalWave · 09/11/2022 09:50

OP was absolutely talking about the children.

To anyone disabled on this thread who has taken offence, there really is no need. If you need it, you need it. No need to start shouting obscenities.

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If you have offended a lot of people at the same time, and intelligent empathetic person would take a look at themselves, work out whether they had said anything wrong and then apologise. Not try to tone police the people they have upset.

ExhaustedFlamingo · 09/11/2022 09:56

Greennetting · 09/11/2022 09:55

If you have offended a lot of people at the same time, and intelligent empathetic person would take a look at themselves, work out whether they had said anything wrong and then apologise. Not try to tone police the people they have upset.

Show quote history

In a nutshell.

baroqueandblue · 09/11/2022 09:56

If you think net benefit receivers have it tough in this country, you will be aghast at how much room to fall there really is.

And if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd realise how little height "to fall" a frighteningly increasing number of your 'net benefit claimant charity cases' actually have left.

But I can bet you wouldn't be aghast. You don't have it in you Hmm

Harrysnippleno3 · 09/11/2022 09:56

OP was absolutely talking about the children.

To anyone disabled on this thread who has taken offence, there really is no need. If you need it, you need it. No need to start shouting obscenities.

Taken offence? You say that almost as if it would be wrong to be fucked off with your abeliest bullshit OP.

Don't pretend you were only talking about children's disability benefits when you have made several posts which say otherwise.

Harrysnippleno3 · 09/11/2022 09:58

If you have offended a lot of people at the same time, and intelligent empathetic person would take a look at themselves, work out whether they had said anything wrong and then apologise. Not try to tone police the people they have upset.

This.

bigdecisionstomake · 09/11/2022 10:01

Harrysnippleno3 · 09/11/2022 09:06

@bigdecisionstomake

Only on MN could this be the landlord's fault when the people in question were homeowners...

Wee they?

In his summing up the judge said £1600 of the £7k they were receiving was being spent on their mortgage payments.

Morph22010 · 09/11/2022 10:03

Facecream · 09/11/2022 08:26

Fuck me sideways with the why is no-one checking in person…
Fo you think DWP staff are competent medical consultants who can “pop around” to see if children like my daughter have just suddenly overcome her permanent disabilities..!
Snd this would cost Taxpayers how much?
The reality of disability benefit applications is
a) THEY ARE RE-APPLIED FOR EVERY YEAR - so doctors, therapists, school, social worker reports and consultants etc letters go to the DWP EVERY year.
b) The notion that the DWP would ask “does it help” is phenomenally ludicrous and hilarious/ they know it’s the bare minimum.
c) Carer’s allowance is £67 a week,

So here’s what the Family COULD be getting:
Carer’s Allowance for caring for each other- £67 x2 is £ 134 per week. Multiply by 52 weeks is Per year £6968.

No need to claim DLA or PIP to make up that incredible salary…

Problem sorted, OP??

They are not reapplied for every year, I was initially awarded my sons dla for 4 years and have just reapplied and been awarded another four years.

Harrysnippleno3 · 09/11/2022 10:04

In his summing up the judge said £1600 of the £7k they were receiving was being spent on their mortgage payments.

I didn't see this.

bigdecisionstomake · 09/11/2022 10:08

@Harrysnippleno3 It wasn't in the Daily Mail article that the OP linked to but has been reported by other sources including the Daily Telegraph article that a PP linked to.

Willyoujustbequiet · 09/11/2022 10:10

ihatethefuckingmuffin · 09/11/2022 02:19

Just done a calculator based on 50k wages, twin 10 year olds, council tax D, 1600 month rent (average private for a 3 bed near me) both parents 40.

They would get just under £2 a calendar month without any dla.

Care component for 2 at the highest rate would be 736 pcm. This would bring it up to over 2.6k a month without adding the highest rate of mobility for the 2 at 516 pcm.

When combined over £3 a month.

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That's bizarre as I've just done one on Entitled to on £50k salary and its come back as £0 for Universal Credit.

I do know that I tried to claim once and wasn't entitled to anything as I'd received a final monthly payment of £3000 from a former employer that fell within the monthly entitlement period. That would equate to £36k so 50k would definitely not get anything.

Original poster
CoastalWave · 09/11/2022 10:10

JustLyra · 08/11/2022 23:50

I don’t think a lot of people realise just how much services have been cut.

My youngest DD has a complicated life-limiting health condition. Her mobility is limited and her communication is extremely limited.

When she was very little we went to a group at a children’s centre locally. That’s closed.

My other children went to a couple of clubs for children with terminal or limited life siblings. That’s closed.

DD went to respite once a month. That doesn’t happen because of shortages.

The parent support group - closed.

Local drop in clinic that was like an extension of the HV service, you could chat about feeding worries or have them weighed - closed.

She’s had 7 different social workers this year. I’ve spoken to 2 on the phone. None of them seen her. One was her allocated SW for such a short time the letter telling me that X was now her allocated arrived only 3 days before the one saying that Y now is.

She goes to a specialist school 25 miles away. She goes by taxi. Due to covid, then Dd being ill on the latest parents day none of the school staff have met DH or I in person. Her attendance last year was 32%.

All bar one of her consultant appointments in the last couple of years have been cancelled or done by phone.

Now Dd has multiple A&E admissions so she has an element of safety in that, but if I was neglectful and didn’t take her who would notice?

Social services and other intervention services are almost non-existent.

Rather than frothing about the money people should be up in arms about the absolute abandonment of vulnerable people that has been caused by repeated slashing of services.

I'm frothing about £7k a month going out with no checks for precisely this reason! It's hard to put in words - what I"m trying to say is that if £7k is going to just one household, and they qualify for it, they must be in dire need and therefore a check to see how they're coping?

It could be much much better spent as you've outlined and lots of those mentioned would have stopped this sooner.

I"m sorry you've had these experiences.

I"m angry at a system that's clearly broken.

And yes, for the 100th time, I'm far more concerned about the children than the money - I'm just pointing out that if the money was better managed, the children could have been saved sooner, surely?

OP posts:
Harrysnippleno3 · 09/11/2022 10:13

Well surely if you're giving people £1k a month say in disability, there's someone who goes out to check it's not fraudulent?!

OP this is what you said.

Not about the sheer amount, not about children, just about ANYONE on disability benefits. You suggested we were fair game for random checks because we could all be frauds.

Do not try to backtrack now. You have dig a huge hole, I would suggest you take a step back.