Is it me or the cyclist?

[bettyfreddy]

I've just had an incident with a cyclist who was very angry and is going with his footage to the police. I'm quite shaken by it and it was honestly an accident. I was driving.

So I overtook the cyclist along with maybe 2 other cars in front of me. Carried on driving for around 300 yards and slowed down for the queue at the roundabout ahead.

As I began to move forward slowly - it wasn't my turn to leave the round about, there was a car in front of me - the cyclist shot by me on the left hand side of the car. I honestly didn't see him. He was absolutely cycling at quite a speed. I stopped as soon as I saw him (car in front had gone) and he went in front of my car and started swearing at me.

I didn't move the car, let him go round the roundabout.

I was dropping my son off at pre school which is just round the roundabout so he clearly saw where I was going so came to 'speak' to me. He called me a dangerous driver and he was going to show his footage from his cycling helmet to the police and to expect them to call round.

I apologised and said I genuinely didn't see him. I moved my car forwards at about 3mph probably, he just shot by me. Granted I should of checked my wing mirrors but it wasn't my turn to leave the round about so I was just slowing cruising along.

I can take it if I'm at fault and I really did apologise to him.

Awful driving to block cycles

I cycle and wear lycra, not sure why cyclists wearing lycra get more hassle!

It's because a lot of drivers hate cyclists and especially those that they feel hold them up more. It's intolerance, entitlement and lots of other unpleasantness rolled into one.

Regular cyclist here, I hate roundabouts in this country as drivers rarely give cyclists the correct priority so it’s not unusual to be a bit edgy on them on a bike as you’re very vulnerable. Your main mistake OP was you didn’t check your mirrors or blind spot before advancing your car, you knew there was a vulnerable road user (cyclist) about. Sounds like he was going quite fast but likely he was trying to position himself in primary to negotiate the roundabout. If you are in the middle of the lane you are more likely to be seen and less likely to be killed. It’s very hard to advance on a roundabout from the left side and go forward or turn right as you have to cross paths with the traffic. An astonishing number of drivers don’t use left indicators so high chance of getting left hooked.

However it seems there wasn’t really the time for him to actually take primary position and he’d probably have been better filtering on the right. Lots of cyclists avoid that, as it’s actually quite scary, but in these situations it’s actually often safer. Hard to be sure as I don’t know the road layout.

Hard to also tell whether you should have passed him again as I’m very confused by your distance estimates. Often the considerate and safest thing for everyone is to allow cyclists and bikers to get ahead of you at junctions so they can be seen and you know where they are.

People on this thread have a lot of misunderstanding about the Highway Code and a lot of assumptions about cyclist behaviour. Most are simply trying to get from A to B without getting hurt or killed and the onus is on drivers to take extra care around vulnerable road users. Not saying cyclist behaviour is always right but drivers often make assumptions about what they should be doing instead of viewing from their perspective. As in ‘shouldn’t undertake’ ‘should be in cycle lane’ ‘shouldn’t try to get in front’ often these are very wrong assumptions for that particularly stretch of road. Having said which there was no excuse for him yelling or name calling. No need for that at all. I’ve spoken to drivers before and definitely been cross (adrenaline is very powerful when you’ve had a scare) but I’ve never actually been aggressive. There’s just no need. He can just submit his footage and let the police deal with it.

I hope you’re ok OP you sound like a considerate driver who made a mistake and you accept that. Nobody was actually hurt and I doubt you’ll not check your mirrors again!

Unless you're a completely useless driver, anyone with a modicum of driving sense or care would approach a cyclist with caution and slow down. This is already advised by so many people (including the IAM when I did my course). I certainly wouldn't do what was described and be part of 7 cars overtaking in a chain. The HWY explicitly says not to assume it's safe to overtake and if you're following two cars that are already overtaking I'd say that you cannot 100% judge that it's safe to do so. But I see this all the time as multiple overtakes have been normalised. It's a terrible practice.

But if you're driving properly this would invariably mean slowing before accelerating to overtake (when you can see it's clear to do so). I always slow for cyclists irrespective as passing at whatever the speed limit is, generally not good. It's not safe or pleasant for the cyclist. So I'm not imagining anything but describing how you SHOULD be driving. But as a cyclist and driver you should know this already, right?

Not that you've said this but we can't have drivers saying that cyclists pass them too quickly but then overtake them at 30mph. Drivers can't have it both ways and a cyclist passing stationary traffic at 10mph is actually less than a diver passing a cyclist at 30mph when they're doing 10mph.

If the road was completely clear, I guess you could pass but with stationary traffic ahead, what's the point. Really? The OP said traffic was stationary and two cars overtook in front of her so it was guaranteed that she'd be in the queue ahead. I'm not saying anything that I don't do myself and would just be patient.

I get 300 yards is a borderline distance but if you're reading the road ahead, I'd personally give a cyclist a clear bit of road (for a change). With so many 20mph limits nowadays it's really not an issue anyway.

OP said in the early part of the thread that there's always a queue at the roundabout, so the road ahead was well read and known and the overtake was completely unnecessary.

The OP added the aggression bit after the thread want going her way.

The first story made no mention of aggression and made the conversation sound quite polite considering there'd just been a scare

He called me a dangerous driver and he was going to show his footage from his cycling helmet to the police and to expect them to call round.

@Lunar270 The contortions you're having to do, to try and recast this whole scenario into something that there's no evidence it ever was, is extraordinary. The "incident" occured at the queue for the roundabout. The initial overtake had nothing to do with it.

"If the road was completely clear, I guess you could pass but with stationary traffic ahead, what's the point. Really?"

There's been no suggestion anywhere that the road wasn't clear and that the overtake was anything other than safe and legal. With a clear road, good visibility and no oncoming traffic, it is entirely possible to overtake a cyclist at an appropriate passing distance and speed, without slowing down and speeding up. The point is, it's safe and legal and drivers aren't going to wait behind cyclists when there's no point in doing so. I'd actually be annoyed at a driver that did that, in case I wanted to make a right turn. I'd rather they overtook when they could.

300 yards isn't borderline. It's 40 seconds at 15mph so could easily have been enough time for the queue at the roundabout to disperse and the driver could have safely been away before the cyclist ever got there. So this whole "no point" thing is utter rubbish. It couldn't have been predicted.

I cycle in a city on a daily basis, and have done for 20 years, and know all too well that there are times when drivers make unnecessary manoeuvres. I also know you should never put yourself in a situation where your safety depends on a driver having seen you in their inside mirror. Nor have I ever found myself in a situation where I would want to stop and get aggressive with a driver like that.

The OP did very little wrong and the cyclist was a dick. That's the overwhelming majority consensus on this thread.

Presumably he's referring to your previous overtaking manouvere. If I read you correctly you overtook him and two other vehicles. I've no idea of what sort of road you're on but that sounds difficult and unnecessary if he caught up with you at a roundabout shortly afterwards.
Calm down and wait to see what happens. Panaroma had a shocking programme on last week showing near misses from a cyclists perspective and it's well worth a watch.

OP says there's a queue at the roundabout constantly. So the road ahead isn't clear. Why are people so intent on queueing?

@hoooops But its precisely what he did do! He stopped on her left (correct), then pulled away in front of her to negotiate the roundabout (as the new rules allow him to do). He then proceeded to go around the roundabout ahead of her (which she allowed him to do). He didn't do anything wrong, neither did she. He may have been annoyed as she didn't see him on her left and was moving off forward, perhaps he thought she was goi g to block or go ahead of him? Who knows? He was annoyed (not justified) and verbally abused her (illegal). She did nothing wrong, he was an arse.

@oldwhyno

No contortions necessary. If you're doing 30mph and approaching a cyclist, you shouldn't be passing at 30mph, irrespective of how clear the road is. If that's how you drive then that says more about you than it does me and my alleged 'contortions'. So are you saying that all motoring and cycling organisations are wrong and you're right? Ok.

The possible incident (we don't actually know because we haven't seen the footage) was due to the OP not paying due care and attention. That lays fault at the driver, not the cyclist.

You say 40 seconds but clearly from the OP, this wasn't sufficient time for traffic to disperse. You're doing the contortions now as the OP and 4 other cars following the overtake just got stuck behind her in the queue. Again, if you're reading the road properly you'd see this and the futility of overtaking.

It doesn't matter if you been cycling in the city for 20 years. It's meaningless if you're demonstrating the level of understanding you're doing now.

It's like those people who see red traffic lights ahead but carry on at the same speed and brake heavily, instead of just lifting off. Or last minute braking everywhere.

Cumulatively, reading the road saves a small fortune on fuel but a lot of people rather complain that they can't achieve anything close to the stated economy figures.

@Lunar270 from the Highway Code:

“leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds”

300 yards isn't borderline. It's 40 seconds at 15mph so could easily have been enough time for the queue at the roundabout to disperse and the driver could have safely been away before the cyclist ever got there. So this whole "no point" thing is utter rubbish. It couldn't have been predicted.

It's 40 seconds minus the 20 seconds it would have taken you to do it at 30, in fact it's probably more than 20 seconds as there's a queue and you're going to slow as you approach the queue. So maybe 10 seconds difference, maximum 15 seconds.

I'd actually be annoyed at a driver that did that.

Of course you would, this is what the problem is. You're getting annoyed whilst having 10 seconds added on to your queuing opportunity. That's not a positive thing

For people really struggling with why the cyclist was upset I have drawn a diagram demonstrating why he was pissed.

He intended to go right. he positioned left (as is legal) he intended to moved off before the OP as he has a right to do, therefore he crossed into her path as he had priority. His annoyance was because
she didn't see him
she was moving and could have potentially hit him
she didn't know he could cross in front of her to turn right
she could have killed him, he was going fast because the roundabout was clear and he had priority. She should have stopped and let him go.

She didn't do anything hundreds of other motorists (myself included) may have done, and she didn't deserve to be verbally abused. She also didn't break any laws which he did with the abuse.

New rules people as I posted earlier.

The initial post made no allegations of abuse. Cyclist approached her, called her a bad driver and said he'd report to police.

It was only after some kickback that the imaginary social media thread about a complete non incident that just happened to support the answer IP thought they deserved

Oh started swearing I see. Yes you shouldn't swear at people

Today I was driving towards a junction and a car parked on my side of the road just started driving towards the junction, as I was passing. Driver slammed the brakes on in evident shock.

It's actually quite a similar situation to this because it could have been avoided by using the shiny reflective things for their intended purpose

Thanks, I finally understand what happened.

'Up to'

Doesn't mean it's appropriate or sensible and as an alleged cyclist I thought you might appreciate that. I do both too but am more considerate of others. I certainly don't use sections of the HWC to justify inconsiderate behaviour.

It's like passing road workers on dual carriageways or motorways. I change lane, slow down or both. You don't have to but if you've experienced a car passing at 70mph when only 1m away, you appreciate the responsibility of driving a motorised vehicle and how unpleasant it can be for others.

Doubt he would have bawled you out if you'd been a bloke. I'm a cyclist and I see awful behaviour from both cars and bikes on the road. I tend not to filter up on a car's left side when I'm cycling as I hate that when I'm driving!

@BabyGrooverBug Took a bit of digging lol

If you close pass someone and nearly kill them then expect them to swear.

Deary me. You asserted that "you shouldn't be passing at 30mph" and that "all motoring and cycling organisations" would somehow back that up. You haven't backed that up with a source, but anyone can find it clearly stated in the highway code how much distance you should leave at speeds up to 30 and to give more space at higher speeds. Anybody with a basic level of English could understand that means you can overtake at 30 or faster, just leave appropriate space.

He is not squeezing past. He is turning right according to the OP.