Why are nursery workers so poorly paid, seeing as fees are so extortionate ?

[gluo]

Where does it all go, seriously ?

Yes and massive responsibility of looking after someone else’s children. Some of the staff are so young still themselves and expected to be responsible when out and about with a group of little ones at a park or out and about at shops. So many of the girls look bored to tears when I see them. 😢

Because they're are almost always women. Nurses, teachers, cleaners etc. It's no coincidence.

Childcare (and care) workers are also rarely unionised.
Men have often achieved better rates of pay by collective bargaining.
But women are sold care work as a 'vocation' and asking for more money would be 'greedy'.

It is very difficult to run a nursery and make a profit. It is not the money-making scheme some people seem to think it is.

Early Years is woefully ignored and underfunded by the government. Very sad and very frustrating.

A large % will go to those at the top as is the norms these days.

The owners of any nursery will pay themselves a nice wage

The fees aren't actually extortionate, they are just a lot compared to most people's salaries, which makes sense since you are paying someone else to work full time on your behalf, as well as maintain the infrastructure of the business.

If they were well payed the fees would wipe out many salaries altogether.

The same reasons I was paid £150 a day and charged out at £1100 per day I guess? I had the same arguments, lights, rent, cleaning etc. Just all of my above was £950 per day.

Staff costs

• basic minimum to meet ratios
• extra to cover sickness and holidays
• cook
• cleaners
• admin
• manager (degree level in Scotland)

For each of those : basic pay, NI, pension, PVG, uniform, training costs, sick pay, etc

Premises costs

• either rent or financing of purchase of building/land
• utilities - high due to large spaces and need to keep warm
• maintenance contracts
• commercial waste disposal
• rates if applicable
• VAT on all of the above
• wear and tear (costs a fortune)
• initial fit out costs (also costs a bloody bomb)
• phone(s)
• internet
• security systems

-fire checks

• garden maintenance

Equipment

• toys (buy cheap, buy many times unless it's the ikea kitchen)
• safety equipment
• furniture
• soft furnishings
• outdoor equipment and toys

All high wear and tear, cos kids...

Insurances
Registration fees
Recruitment costs
Advertising
Food
Cleaning supplies
Stationery
IT equipment
specialist software

And I've missed loads

One of the largest chain of nurseries is owned by a private equity firm. They could definitely pay staff more if they wanted to. Can't name them but I used to see the monthly accounts. Same for care homes, every single owner would rock up to meetings in a new range rover. Again their accounts showed they could definitely be doing more for the staff. These are businesses not charities so they can and do make large profits for owners and investors. IMO it's all so wrong. Same for private fostering agencies, again some owners are multi millionaires and all because the local authorities cannot do the same job properly.

The largest chains do tend to make more because they are just so big apart from anything else. But lots of local nurseries - stand alone or very small groups - are really struggling.

The fees aren't extortionate. Around here you'd pay £60 to £70 for a full day. That's £7 per hour and the children are fed at least twice a day.

It is expensive to run a nursery but the owners make a decent profit. Sil started her own nursery, (after being employed in one), very quickly opened 3 others and she made millions. I'm totally in awe of her not just for making so much money but for taking the initiative of opening a highly responsible business and running it successfully and being able to retire at 50. However, this was pre COVID so now this might not be so easy anymore.

The fees may be large, but they aren’t unreasonable. It’s actually pretty amazing care is available at that cost. It’s a hard job for low pay.

just paying a nursery worker the minimum wage is going to take up £30 a day and that doesn’t account for all labor expenses. Then there are actual costs of operation like providing a building, with electricity, and water. Perhaps there might even be some toys and books on site.

Thats what salaries cost. I’m on a childcare committee in another country, it’s a not for profit so doesn’t pay tax and rent, and fees are the equivalent of £80-90 a day. 95% of that goes straight out the door in paying staff and childcare staff are not known for being well remunerated. I don’t know how the for profit ones manage it.

How are the fees extortionate?

People pay their cleaners more per hour.

Please stop this nonsense.

Childcare workers are looking after your most precious person. Most undervalued work because it's just babysitting right?

It's the low wages, the need to have two parents working full time. The cost of living, mortgages and everything else.

And the pitiful government funding.

You loose money on babies if you run a day nursery
They are a loss leader.

It’s one of those things that sounds expensive until you sit down and work out what the costs actually are.

@PigletsChewedEar I thought 3 year olds (pre schoolers) were loss making? The pre-school attached to DC’s then primary closed about 10 years ago because they couldn’t survive without being subsidised by the budget from the primary school.

@zeddybrek Yes private equity, that’s the term I couldn’t find earlier. Current laws make it very difficult for local authorities to run nurseries (must currently be no provision) but Labour have said they will change that.

People think it’s extortionate as they get school for free (which they see as childcare even though its not) and they don’t realize how much education costs.

The chains make money by leveraging shared teams for finance etc, bulk buying supplies and by using very cheap staff. You'll notice they have lots of 18 & 19 year olds who are paid less than full minimum wage.

I help run a non profit nursery with mainly older, experienced staff. There is literally 0 profit, we struggle to balance the books despite having the cheapest rent imaginable.

A nursery apprentice only has to be paid £4.81 per hour in their first year which considering the level of responsibility is outrageous.

Our nursery doesn't provide food, nappies, wipes etc. We have to send all of that in ourselves. Food has to be non perishable. It's cheaper than most, but still pretty eye watering.

I used to pay our childminder about £6 ph for each of my kids. Over a month it was over 1k which was obviously a huge chunk of our household income but as an hourly rate, for her, that's a crappy income. It's a huge cost because it's coming out of net pay. Unless you earn more than CM or nursery fees, it's not worth working (assuming you have a working partner etc and ignoring the longer term benefits of career and pension). Most people's wages are not suited to fill time employment of another person. Anyone who thinks childcare providers are coming it in are crazy.

Honestly, I'm a member of a childcare manager group on Facebook and most of them are in crisis. I'm not joking. They can't cover their over heads, their poor staff are on minimum wage even when they're qualified and experienced (one of the only industries that have to work like this) and budgets are so so stretched. I wouldn't be surprised if your fave nursery closed down. There also just aren't the qualified staff available as no one wants to do the intensive training to end up on min wage with no progression. Even the managers are on a little over £10ph. We are at crisis point for childcare and the gov need to do something. There will be no quality childcare left in years to come if the industry is left to rot like it is now.