Nurses’ pay compared with other jobs

[Pinkapron]

Would anyone be prepared to share what they pay tradespeople in their homes, eg cleaners, gardeners, plumbers, electricians etc, per hour please?
I am a staff nurse, 32 years qualified, with post graduate qualifications, and earn £16.84 per hour.

Agree with this

But in reality, how do you propose that would work?

A high proportion of the working population are in exactly the same predicament. If you want to earn more you often have to step away from the 'frontline' operational roles and step up into management which is a different job and probably completely different skillset.

I was absolutely amazed when I joined the NHS at the sheer number of training and self development opportunities available. The offering in terms of training, benefits, pension, etc. has been far better than what i've experienced in private sector.

A lot of NHS staff assume that the grass is much greener in private sector but I think they would be pretty disappointed at the reality.

Where I live £16ish per hour would be considered very respectable. Tradespeople don't necessarily work the straight 10 hours for one customer, they have to factor in fuel between customers and travel time, plus as others said holiday pay, sick pay, insurance, car, fuel, pension. Many self employed people I know would happily take a pay drop for job security and the paid holidays etc.

But in reality, how do you propose that would work?

I think @Peekachoochoo by having more band 6 roles available at ward/dept level. Band 6 is still very much a clinical grade so having opportunities for developing skills and moving into a promoted, but still very much clinical role

I'm not arguing with you. This issue and debate isn't about the trust you work in or I per say. This is across the board nursing as a whole what are you suggesting that there are more Sisters and above posts than band 5 nurses?? A band 6 still works on the ward well the good ones do!

Nurses in general stay at a band 5 because the responsibility of a band 6 isn't really worth it from a band and those that are recruited after a few years out of uni 🙄..... its because no buggy wants that department.

You sound like "Matron"

To clarify, I’m not a liar, and I am very good at my job. I have previously been at a higher grade, in a different speciality (also have a post grad qualification for that one), I have taken time out of nursing for family reasons, and done a return to practice course, after which I was paid as a newly qualified nurse, rather than one with many years of experience and a relevant post grad qualification.
I have applied for a higher band, but it has gone to someone with less experience, without the relevant post grad course, who was obviously better at ‘talking the talk’ at interview.
I work part time, and love my job. I’m known for being very good at it, and am valued by my patients and my colleagues. I don’t want to change jobs, as DH encourages, because I enjoy it, and my colleagues, and feel very loyal towards them, although it is very stressful, and completely knackering. ATM though, it feels like we’re rats jumping off a sinking ship! So many staff have left over the last few years, and the new staff take time to train into the very specialised role. Quite often they leave just when we’ve got them trained up, usually for better pay and/or conditions.
I have voted to strike, with a heavy heart, not because I want to, but for the future of recruitment and retention, for the future of the profession I love, and always have, and most of all, for the safety of our patients, because something has to change.

Yes HellsAngel, I have been thinking this today while listening to all of the news. Registered Veterinary Nurses have a starting salary of 20-22k a top salary for a senior nurse is likely to be 32k this is with years of experience and post graduate qualifications. While doing a comparable job to their human nursing colleagues.
The veterinary industry too is understaffed at the moment.

Support the nurses right to strike!
I do a very easy job. I earn £35 per hour. Don’t work long hours, all fits around my family life. Yes it’s no sick pay/holiday pay/pension BUT I’m incredibly lucky as I have a job that works for me and my family and is zero stress
nurses have trained hard to ge their degrees, do one of the most important jobs in our society, work long shifts, Christmas Day miss being with their families etc and they deserve a fucking pay rise.

and the person upthread saying they work in disability support and are low wage, shit conditions. Quite agree - you and social care generally also need a fucking pay rise.

I am a nurse in Australia but no longer working. I did the conversion of 16.84 to Australian dollars and it's $29.98.
I used to get exactly the same.
I now work as a self employed support worker with a disabled person and get $61.83 and hour.
Nursing is not worth it.

My sister is a band 6 nurse and gets the same wage as my SIL who works in a shop (not in a managerial role). This really shocked me.

Tradesmen aren't guaranteed work.
Round here there's been a shortage of them and they are/were run off their feet. Post covid work , people working from home and wanting to change things. However we are heading for a recession so I suspect some of the work will dry up.

So they might have less income. Gardeners that I know work much less in the winter so it's not a continuous income. Cleaner is 15 pounds an hour but has travel costs (we live in the country).

Not the point, I know, but the total remuneration is a bit better than the headline figure.

Employer contributions to the pension scheme, and the maternity / sick pay and death in service benefits etc also add value compared to having to take out insurance policies for those things if you were self employed...

That being said, it is ridiculous to hear of highly trained essential workers resorting to second jobs and food banks in order to make ends meet.

That was a good thing to do

How can you possibly compare the hourly rate of a Self Employed gardener with a nurse's hourly rate? My friend is a SE gardener and his rate is £18 ph but estimates that half of that goes on the many business and running costs. So he's actually on less than minimum wage. No paid holidays either.

I very much sympathise with the issues in NhS re pay.

However you can't compare a tradesman wage in that way. Self employed people get no pension, sick pay, parental leave, maternity/paternity pay or holiday pay. All of which are significant elements of NHS wage package.

A skilled farm worker (e.g drill or spray operator) will be on somewhere in the region of £18 per hour if self employed.

I think we need to look at pension too if comparing jobs. I believe NHS pension is one of the good ones.

This is trust specific. Many staff - drs, nurses, ahps have to pay for courses including prescribing. Also no study leave given - not unique to the nhs of course.

She earns 33-40k working as a shop assistant? What kind of shop is it? I don't believe this for one second.

When talking about nurses, I think we should remember our Healthcare Assistants who do a very responsible, mentally and physically hard job earning between 21,000 and 22,000 pa. They’re the reason I voted to strike!

It doesn’t matter what you believe. No need to be so abrasive.

Not to mention the fact that we have to legally be registered in order to practice, be CPD compliant to stay on register, and can be struck off the register for any fuck-ups!

And I don't think we would EVER get the option to strike either - we don't even have a union soley for veterinary nurses.

With all due respect, this would be exactly the same in a lot of other careers.

I was a PA in the region of 20 odd years. I worked at senior level and maxed out my salary at the £40k mark. I had a lot of knowledge and experience and worked for some very big bosses running multi million pound companies. I could have potentially earned more if I worked in London but I was already working very long hours and received next to nothing in terms of time off in lieu or bonuses for the privilege. It was also incredibly stressful. My pension has never been as good as an NHS pension and part-time was never an option at that level. You just can't do that role on reduced hours due to the pace of change and workload.

Towards the end I decided that I had just had enough. I changed careers a few years ago and do something completely different now.

I've thought about going back to that several times recently but know that I would have to step back in at a much lower level for a lower salary which I know I wouldn't particularly enjoy as there is a very high possibility I would have to work for a large team doing run of the mill work rather than a 1:1 role with lots of project work and autonomy.

The NHS is one of the very few employers with a glut of part-time roles and lots of women at senior level. Being part-time isn't sniffed at and you don't constantly receive barbed comments from male colleagues about what you're doing on your 'day off'. Look at the management structure of the majority of companies and it will be a miracle if you see one woman in amongst the white middle aged men. It is almost impossible to rise the ranks in most companies due to the patriarchy and having to compete in a man's world. Yes, some people on here manage it but they've generally had to sacrifice their lives at the lower level to get into a position where they are respected enough to get the work flexibility.

At the end of the day it is what it is. You're doing a Band 5 role and that's what it pays. You want to earn more but only want to work part-time/do this job because you like the status quo. I'm not really sure what you think the solution is. There are loads of women on these threads who have stepped down from really decent jobs pre-children and find it impossible to get back at that level without doing full time roles at huge expense to their physical and mental health. Lots of women give up work then scratch around looking for work and end up working part-time low paid jobs in schools, admin or healthcare. You just need to hang around the employment boards for a while to realise that this is a real problem.

My eyes roll back in my head when I hear some of my NHS colleagues. The majority of them haven't got a clue what goes on in the 'real world'.

What nonsense @Peekachoochoo you can’t speak for the majority of nurses or have insight into hours and grades..

The point is though that for any job (NHS, private, whatever) there is a salary ceiling for the level of responsibility it carries.

In this case, it's c£32K for a band 5 (I assume that's base pay though before shift/unsociable hours)

Whether that salary is high enough for that level of role is the question.

Yes!! We can only hope these conversations will bring (small) change for our industry too.