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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School given noticed today that ofsted arriving tomorrow?

198 replies

oldstudentmum · 07/11/2022 17:21

Not a teacher btw. Is this the norm as schools that kids have attended all got longer notice and we were sent forms to fill out for inspector. Any thoughts 💭

OP posts:
Rippled · 07/11/2022 23:42

Shouldn't be on "special behaviour". They should be turning up and seeing what is actually going on. Then constructive feedback can happen. What's the problem?

WrongLife · 08/11/2022 00:26

Poopoolittlerabbit · 07/11/2022 21:09

‘Oh, and the governors are all at work in their own jobs and can't just down tools and turn up!’

depends, an inspection that happens once every 5-8 years or so is probably worth turning up for

I was police staff and a governor, I absolutely could not have turned up with no notice and half a day was difficult enough - I managed 3 hours on one of the days.

Bathtubbathing · 08/11/2022 05:50

ManefesationofConciousness · 07/11/2022 22:19

22 years as a SIP for 5 different LAs.
10 years as Head of School Improvement for a large LA

I can assure you _ we never know (unless the diocese blabbed) or we requested an inspection (once)

Over 40 years knowing my sister, and knowing she doesn't lie
Over 35 years knowing that lording things over others is a very unattractive quality.

I can assure you that she knew for her last two inspections her call would come within the fortnight.

As I said before, I appreciate your experience may be different, but this is mine.

shufflestep · 08/11/2022 06:37

Half a days notice is definitely required, for example the room required for Ofsted has to be made available - I am a peripatetic music teacher and I often get cancelled for Ofsted to free up space. Schools often know due to circumstances if they might be due an inspection - one school I teach at was expecting it due to a dip in the SATs, due to children in the previous year six having a higher than usual proportion of SEN.

Especially in Primary schools no notice really wouldn't work, what if the inspectors turn up to find the school is on a whole school trip, or the head is at their mother's funeral? Ofsted was put back a couple of days at another school I teach in due to that.

HideTheCroissants · 08/11/2022 14:02

*Except its not usually 😕 You have the head along with his admin staff franticly going through/sorting/tiding paperwork, classrooms being "made over" with all lovely work on display, corridors suddenly spring cleaned and tidied to every inch of their life. School staff I really smart clothing/suits, the caretaker smartly dressed, lunchtimes have about 10 staff suddenly supervising the hall/play ground, reception areas suddenly free of "lost property " and other mess. Everyone acting like completely different staff for 2 days and the "disruptive" children suddenly absent or have 2 staff looking after them.

It's all a joke and Ofsted should be like EHO who just turn up to kitchens. That's the only way you'll ever get a true picture.*

I’ve been through four Ofsted inspections and what @Redwineandroses describes is not familiar to me at all! BUT our corridors are always clean, our displays are always fresh & relevant, our “lost property” is there but tidy. We literally do nothing different apart from put biscuits and the unchipped / in stained mugs in the inspectors room and a big box of chocolates in the staff room when it is over.

VickyEadieofThigh · 08/11/2022 14:05

WrongLife · 08/11/2022 00:26

I was police staff and a governor, I absolutely could not have turned up with no notice and half a day was difficult enough - I managed 3 hours on one of the days.

I'm a chair of governors and for our last inspection was away on holiday when the call came. Fortunately, it was in the UK, but necessitated me driving two and a half hours back in the middle of the holiday to meet with the inspector, staying overnight at home and then driving back the next day.

Deputy chair is a police officer and on perational duties - could not get any time off at all.

Another school local to us got the day before call - all children and staff (it's a small primary) were going to be out on a trip the next day.

SOME notice prevents inspectors wasting their time!

shinynewapple22 · 08/11/2022 14:39

Hilarious that posters are pretending to be experts on current practice because they worked in a school 20 years ago - or because they are passing on gossip from friends and family members .

OldMotherShipton · 08/11/2022 15:05

Bathtubbathing · 08/11/2022 05:50

Over 40 years knowing my sister, and knowing she doesn't lie
Over 35 years knowing that lording things over others is a very unattractive quality.

I can assure you that she knew for her last two inspections her call would come within the fortnight.

As I said before, I appreciate your experience may be different, but this is mine.

But it isn’t yours?
it is 2nd hand from your sister?

HideTheCroissants · 08/11/2022 18:14

I know that we will be getting the call within the next 12 months.

I haven’t had a tip off, I just know that it is due. I will probably know before our head as it will be me who answers the call and I will know who they are when I put them through. I will NOT then “tip off” anyone else as that would be unprofessional. The Head will let the rest of the staff know when she has finished with the call and after she has told SLT and the head of the MAT. I’ve never known a call to come in before 12.30 but they have always been by 1.00 pm. In the “old days” that gave us two hours to photocopy the paperwork that we were then expected to send home with every child so that part used to be very stressful. These days we can email it to all but a few of our families so that is a lot easier.

I also won’t know the result until it is officially released (quite a long time after the inspection) but we can tell from the Head’s general demeanour what it is to be honest.

I will have a quick check of the things I will be expected to meet with the inspectors about but they are checked in a regular basis anyway but other than that it will just getting out the decent mugs and getting the caretaker to cone off a couple of parking spaces……..

switswoo81 · 08/11/2022 18:20

Here is Ireland there are two types of inspection, one you get notice for and one ("a drive-by") where the first you know is a knock at the door (or a frantic child sticking the head around the door to say the inspector is here)

CurlyhairedAssassin · 08/11/2022 18:41

HideTheCroissants · 08/11/2022 14:02

*Except its not usually 😕 You have the head along with his admin staff franticly going through/sorting/tiding paperwork, classrooms being "made over" with all lovely work on display, corridors suddenly spring cleaned and tidied to every inch of their life. School staff I really smart clothing/suits, the caretaker smartly dressed, lunchtimes have about 10 staff suddenly supervising the hall/play ground, reception areas suddenly free of "lost property " and other mess. Everyone acting like completely different staff for 2 days and the "disruptive" children suddenly absent or have 2 staff looking after them.

It's all a joke and Ofsted should be like EHO who just turn up to kitchens. That's the only way you'll ever get a true picture.*

I’ve been through four Ofsted inspections and what @Redwineandroses describes is not familiar to me at all! BUT our corridors are always clean, our displays are always fresh & relevant, our “lost property” is there but tidy. We literally do nothing different apart from put biscuits and the unchipped / in stained mugs in the inspectors room and a big box of chocolates in the staff room when it is over.

I think the issue that most schools have currently is that what they would like to present to the inspector is a picture of calmness and orderliness with everything in exactly the right place and absolutely no mess anywhere, and all filing perfectly up to date etc etc. In reality, with the staffing issues and funding cuts that most schools are operating under eg not replacing TAs etc, keeping everything 100% perfect all of the time just isn't possible. Our attention goes fully on the education, wellbeing and happiness of the children and families and sometimes this means neglecting the "surface" stuff like keeping areas super organised and tidy all the time. I would rather spend time cheering up an upset child than sorting a cupboard out. Even now, I think in most schools the real organisation and sorting out happens only due to staff willing to come in in the holidays in their own time to clear out cupboards and lost property etc, and do archiving and those type of jobs. Most schools don't have the staff any more to do this during paid time.

I am school office, 3 form entry primary with nursery. There are only 2 of us, one SBM and one admin, doing all admin stuff. If one of us is off, which has been the case today, then things go a bit awry organisational-wise, as has happened today. My desk looks like a bomb has hit it. But I gave my all to the children, parents and staff that needed me today and worked 9 hours with no break, I literally had no time to keep my desk pristine and the office floor clear and make sure my paper files were all in perfect order. I doubt that an Ofsted inspector would recognise that I had prioritised things correctly if they took our office at face value today. They don't want to hear that I was on my own doing all the multiple reception duties (face to face, phone and email) while also organising 3 classes going out on trips, including running down the road to check where the coach is, multiple phone calls to parents that hadn't consented, all the usual daily attendance stuff including making repeated phone calls to 2 families just because the children hadn't turned into school and the parents hadn't bothered to contact school, dealing with and comforting multiple sick small children who needed to go home etc etc and everything else that goes with a school admin job paying not much more than minimum wage.

If any inspector wanted to judge our school as being untidy and chaotic based on what the school office and reception area looks like at the moment then their processes are wrong. But we don't want to take the risk, so therefore when we do get the call I and all our other staffwill be staying behind for hours in our own time to tidy up and make it LOOK more acceptable, surface-wise, to the inspector. I know our families love the level of care, attention and love all our staff give to the children, as well as the outstanding education I witness daily, and may forgive us a bit of mess in certain areas, but I honestly don't know if Ofsted look at it through the same eyes.

HideTheCroissants · 08/11/2022 19:48

@CurlyhairedAssassin I promise you that our priority is and always will be the welfare and education of the children. We are lucky that our caretaker and two cleaners go above and beyond and keep our relatively new buildings sparkling (although if the inspectors come during rainy weather they will see the wet floor cones and buckets in a couple of places).

Our office is TINY, designed for one but two of us shoe horned in, there is barely room on our floor for our chairs so it has to be clear to be safe.

I agree that a lot of things are done unpaid in holiday time and your day single handed in the office sounds very much like mine but I didn’t have any trips today (I would have preferred that to child who vomited on the register as he handed it to me to be honest 🤮 ) and my school is smaller - I salute you.

We all work more than our paid hours regularly (as do most school staff) but the last time we got the call our deputy (the head hadn’t made it back from conference) insisted that ALL staff left the building by 4.30 the day before the inspection and told us that the caretaker would not be opening up until 7am - to ensure none of us overthought the situation.

I’ve always found the inspectors to be more interested in our children, the standard of education and safeguarding processes than whether we have a lost property box in reception or an unopened delivery in the photocopy room. I’ve never read any report which mentions the tidiness (or otherwise) of the school.

CopOut27 · 08/11/2022 21:37

I’m not an expert but am a governor and have been through an inspection this year plus I do monitoring visits. Honestly, we all know how difficult the situation is in schools and I don’t think anyone cares if the lost property cupboard is a mess (or will know to look!). Some paperwork needs to be exemplary for obvious reasons but beyond that schools that prioritise quality of education, safeguarding and the wellbeing of staff and pupils alike are going to do well - and rightly so.

The inspector asked about these elements, plus others.

Abraxan · 08/11/2022 21:46

It's been little notice for many years now.

We had one just under 10 years ago (had at least one other since then too) and that was 1/2 days notice. Found out at lunch time in the Wednesday and they came Thursday morning. Years ago we used to get a few days notice.

Headteachers and schools don't get a tip off. Certainly in the 25+ years I've been teaching my head teachers haven't known.

We know when we are 'due' but that can span 2 or more years. We've been due Ofsted since covid time. Still waiting but could be any time. So it's a regular occurrence for the HT to say that Ofsted is due but it would just be coincidence if they showed up next week.

Pinkflipflop85 · 08/11/2022 21:47

HideTheCroissants · 08/11/2022 19:48

@CurlyhairedAssassin I promise you that our priority is and always will be the welfare and education of the children. We are lucky that our caretaker and two cleaners go above and beyond and keep our relatively new buildings sparkling (although if the inspectors come during rainy weather they will see the wet floor cones and buckets in a couple of places).

Our office is TINY, designed for one but two of us shoe horned in, there is barely room on our floor for our chairs so it has to be clear to be safe.

I agree that a lot of things are done unpaid in holiday time and your day single handed in the office sounds very much like mine but I didn’t have any trips today (I would have preferred that to child who vomited on the register as he handed it to me to be honest 🤮 ) and my school is smaller - I salute you.

We all work more than our paid hours regularly (as do most school staff) but the last time we got the call our deputy (the head hadn’t made it back from conference) insisted that ALL staff left the building by 4.30 the day before the inspection and told us that the caretaker would not be opening up until 7am - to ensure none of us overthought the situation.

I’ve always found the inspectors to be more interested in our children, the standard of education and safeguarding processes than whether we have a lost property box in reception or an unopened delivery in the photocopy room. I’ve never read any report which mentions the tidiness (or otherwise) of the school.

I'd be really pissed off if SLT tried to tell me I HAD to leave school by 4.30. It would completely mess up the way I work - especially as someone who can't come in early to set up.

glamourousindierockandroll · 08/11/2022 21:49

The definitely don't know Ofsted are coming. They may make a prediction and be right, based on ofsted being in the area, but until they get the call they don't know.

Our head was sure we were going to get the call last half term. We're still waiting, and I wish they would just get it over with, as it's causing a few over the top expectations

Abraxan · 08/11/2022 21:50

MrsDThomas · 07/11/2022 18:23

You’re wrong. Staff working in schools and for ofstead (or local equivalent) talk to each other. I know that.

It would be disciplinary for an ofsted member of staff to tip off a school or Lea.

As a school we can look for hints.
Any other schools in area had the call?
Any big hits in certain web pages (we check our webpage 'insights' and social media visitor stats regularly)?

But nothing more.

CopOut27 · 08/11/2022 22:00

When I’m in schools I’m secretly thinking how TF have you got 30 of them under control when I can barely do that with my DC at home, let alone holding their attention to teach them to read, grammar, maths methods etc. Plus half the SLT at my corporate job aren’t this well behaved and would give toddler tantrums a run for their money.

There’s a reason you need post-grad qualifications to be a teacher.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 08/11/2022 22:54

HideTheCroissants · 08/11/2022 19:48

@CurlyhairedAssassin I promise you that our priority is and always will be the welfare and education of the children. We are lucky that our caretaker and two cleaners go above and beyond and keep our relatively new buildings sparkling (although if the inspectors come during rainy weather they will see the wet floor cones and buckets in a couple of places).

Our office is TINY, designed for one but two of us shoe horned in, there is barely room on our floor for our chairs so it has to be clear to be safe.

I agree that a lot of things are done unpaid in holiday time and your day single handed in the office sounds very much like mine but I didn’t have any trips today (I would have preferred that to child who vomited on the register as he handed it to me to be honest 🤮 ) and my school is smaller - I salute you.

We all work more than our paid hours regularly (as do most school staff) but the last time we got the call our deputy (the head hadn’t made it back from conference) insisted that ALL staff left the building by 4.30 the day before the inspection and told us that the caretaker would not be opening up until 7am - to ensure none of us overthought the situation.

I’ve always found the inspectors to be more interested in our children, the standard of education and safeguarding processes than whether we have a lost property box in reception or an unopened delivery in the photocopy room. I’ve never read any report which mentions the tidiness (or otherwise) of the school.

That’s reassuring, Thankyou. Perhaps I’m just a bit paranoid because I’ve only been in the post 18 months and we are well overdue an inspection. I came from a failing secondary school which had inspections every time the wind changed 😆 and it never got any less stressful.

HideTheCroissants · 09/11/2022 13:45

Pinkflipflop85 · 08/11/2022 21:47

I'd be really pissed off if SLT tried to tell me I HAD to leave school by 4.30. It would completely mess up the way I work - especially as someone who can't come in early to set up.

Our SLT are very keen on work life balance for staff. Except on staff meeting days or twilight training, the school is locked at 5pm every day and we all have to be out by then. Apart from premises staff, most don’t start coming in before 8 am. We do have very high staff retention, people leave when they retire or relocate away from the area with family but in the tears I’ve been in my current school I don’t know of any teacher who left for a job in another school (apart from TAs who were sadly made redundant due to budget cuts).

Pinkflipflop85 · 09/11/2022 22:11

@HideTheCroissants we have a good work/life balance at our school as well, which includes the SLT letting us work how we want to.

I can't get in early because of childcare. I take my full lunch hour without doing any worm. I use my time after school to get everything ready for the next day and catch up on marking/subject leader stuff etc. Being told to leave at 4.30 would really fuck that up!

HideTheCroissants · 10/11/2022 14:32

Pinkflipflop85 · 09/11/2022 22:11

@HideTheCroissants we have a good work/life balance at our school as well, which includes the SLT letting us work how we want to.

I can't get in early because of childcare. I take my full lunch hour without doing any worm. I use my time after school to get everything ready for the next day and catch up on marking/subject leader stuff etc. Being told to leave at 4.30 would really fuck that up!

How late is your caretaker expected to work if staff are staying late?

The 4:30 was just a one off it’s usually 5pm which is two hours after the the children finish.

SilverPen · 10/11/2022 18:03

HideTheCroissants · 10/11/2022 14:32

How late is your caretaker expected to work if staff are staying late?

The 4:30 was just a one off it’s usually 5pm which is two hours after the the children finish.

Our site manager finishes at 5:30 and I am vigorous in protecting his right to finish on time. Staff who like to stay later have keys

Pinkflipflop85 · 10/11/2022 19:45

Caretaker lives on site. He has a split day. Most people will leave by 6 but he will offer to lock up later if desperately needed and he takes the time back for himself elsewhere.

Mred22 · 14/11/2022 22:37

I don't want to start a new thread, but I have an Ofsted question and I thought I could add it to this discussion. My dc's (primary) school was inspected in mid-October, but we haven't been told the outcome.

The ofsted website says it is published 18 working days after the visit, we are over that once you deduct weekends. However there has been half-term, do Ofsted not work in half-term though at child-minders or on paperwork?
Or could the delay suggest the school is appealing the decision, should I be concerned?

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