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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the SEND system is failing children

72 replies

SEND2022 · 06/11/2022 22:15

DD in year 3, complex needs, EHCP since reception and 2 full time 1-1s.

First 18 months were horrific, she was never in class, she only did 2 hours a day in school for months. We couldn't find a single specialist that could meet her needs.

Her mainstream have been utterly incredible, the solution when she was in year 1 was if we can't take her to specialist we would bring specialist to her. She has her TAs, her own room, weekly OT and SALT therapists in. She did settle in year 2 and has had a good year, actually in the classroom 75% of the time which is huge. Received a reward for her love of learning because she 100% does LOVE to learn.

Now in year 3 and it is getting too much for her again. I have searched everywhere for a specialist, 90 minutes diameter. I could write an encyclopedia on all the options to the point I advise other local parents of settings available. Not a single one is suitable for DD. Time isn't on our side and it is frankly terrifying.

She isn't a behavioural child, the LA are insistent the only school that can take her is a behavioural school where she will be exposed to violent behaviour, obscene language and potentially over sexualised behaviours. No other girls in her class or the one above or below. She is highly anxious.

Autism schools are unavailable as she is academically capable. Same for learning difficulties schools.

There are no semh schools that focus on the non-behavioural part of SEMH. No primary ASD schools that suit academically capable children.

So my choice is to stick with where she is, where I know she is a huge resource drain. Where, when she is having a good spell it absolutely is brilliant for her but when it's difficult she is in a room on her own to learn, which is devastating for a child who desperately wants to learn with her class. Hitting year 3 and we seem to have hit teasing issues which we've never encountered before. The benefit of her school is they know her, I trust them implicitly and I know they will do their absolute best and I don't need to worry about having to build the same level of understanding in a new school.

AIBU to think the options are grim?

OP posts:
drspouse · 07/11/2022 13:10

I totally agree. My DS is in the type of SEMH provision you describe, which is also desperately underambitious. He IS explosive but triggered by others' explosions. It's also a 10-16 school but they are just treating him (Y6, very immature) like a teenager and expecting secondary levels of flexibility e.g. moving around rooms, expecting him to be able to tell teachers his difficulties, loud and chaotic dining hall, inappropriate behaviour by older boys (we just got him moved off a taxi with a boy who said he had a gun at home!)

Thatsnotmycar · 07/11/2022 13:13

Boulshired · 07/11/2022 13:04

It’s all, schools are refusing to meet needs, myself, charities and social services have spent the last eight months searching. It’s costing more to educate him in the current set up than the cost of residential.

But are the schools wholly independent or section 41 independents or non-maintained special schools? As that matters. Because if they are section 41 independents or non-maintained special schools the rules are the same as if they were LA maintained schools and they can be named even if the school says they can’t meet needs, if that’s what you want. It is only wholly independent schools where you need an offer of a place.

DoubleShotEspresso · 07/11/2022 13:17

OP I've been on this road, your story has huge parallels with ours though we had to change mainstream schools which thankfully worked well... still a few issues here and there but brilliant support now which makes the difference and yes holds my trust-to a point.

Fact is the SEND system and I'm sad to say many of those paid within it is failing our children daily. Caseloads/diagnoses have never been this high, schools have never been so stretched and this means all the services designed to support and feed in to EHCP's and staff just fails. Daily.
The SEND White & Green papers and consultations muddied the water, many LA's are exploiting the, further to the detriment of SEND families.
The type of research and perseverance you've detailed will be familiar to so many here, but what about those families without parents with capacity for this? It's a gruelling, soul destroying, full time job, 24/7, with no leave and no respite.
The current government are clearly going to strain the system even further, which in turn means we have no choice but to fight harder. Every Damn year. There really ought to be some better media coverage as this problem is growing by the hour.

WheresMyDodo · 07/11/2022 13:20

YANBU we have the same dilemma. Academically my child is very able but he has ASD and huge social issues, and no challenging behaviour, and the system is not set up for it.

angstridden2 · 07/11/2022 13:22

It’s very difficult for a system to accommodate such diverse academic, behavioural and emotional needs. Access to SN resources needs to be made easier so that parents do not have to battle over years to access the resources their children need. How do other similar countries provide SN education?

Punxsutawney · 07/11/2022 13:28

Ds is academically able and at a specialist provision. He is autistic with significant MH difficulties.
Although his provision does cater for young people with ASD and was first established as such. It is now much more of an SEMH placement, with all the challenges that can bring. Ds is highly anxious and this environment can be difficult for him.
It's very hard as mainstream didn't work for him either. At times it feels like he doesn't fit in anywhere.

drspouse · 07/11/2022 14:57

I don't think DS is any less anxious than in mainstream (at least, not his first mainstream) nor is he refusing any less or doing any more academic work. His placement is not to give him a better education, it's for the convenience of the adults.
He had a few months where he was being restrained daily by multiple adults due to not having a stable TA but before that he was no more anxious in a larger mainstream class than he is currently in a chaotic SEMH setting with no aim for him to achieve what he's capable of, no extracurricular opportunities, no drama or music, no PE or swimming, and "learning to be a car valet or a beautician" the highest they think any child is capable of.

AliensAteMyHomework · 07/11/2022 21:20

A school full of academically able autistic kids who are not disruptive would be a teacher's dream, you'd think. They all want to learn so much and have so much to contribute to society if given the chance. Just need a quieter environment and smaller classes etc, not that hard to provide. It's disgusting that no such provision exists. It's hard enough for those with kids with learning disabilities to access the schools their children need, but for academic autistic children there is literally no provision at all.

hiredandsqueak · 07/11/2022 21:32

Have you looked at independent specialist schools? On paper the school my dd attended wasn't meant for academically able children. However what that meant was that they hadn't taken academically able children previously and what they actually did was teach to the child's ability. So she did do a lot of the academics 1 to 1 as she was the most able but the support and learning outside of the academics (which was most important) was done with her peers sometimes just two and occasionally four (which was her whole class)

Thatsnotmycar · 07/11/2022 21:34

@DoubleShotEspresso I agree, DC whose parents know the system and can advocate for them get better support than those who can’t or don’t for many reasons. It really shouldn’t be like that and the system is failing all DC but those DC in particular.

Just need a quieter environment and smaller classes etc, not that hard to provide.

I think this is rather simplistic. DS3 has ‘high functioning’ ASD and is in a MS secondary school. His EHCP includes a large amount of provision and he would still require all the provision even in a smaller class and quieter environment.

There are a few SS for academically able autistic DC e.g. Alderwasley Hall, Breckenbrough, West Kirby, Gretton. There just aren’t anywhere near enough and don’t necessarily meet DC’s wider needs.

AntlerRose · 07/11/2022 21:35

This is tongue in cheek, but she probably will have behavioural issues before too long if they keep not meeting need - and then she will fit the semh stuff available

There really is a lack of academically able asd provision. I just feel it would be so cheap to run compared to waiting for these children to be traumatised and then placing them with ptsd too.

SEND2022 · 07/11/2022 22:59

hiredandsqueak · 07/11/2022 21:32

Have you looked at independent specialist schools? On paper the school my dd attended wasn't meant for academically able children. However what that meant was that they hadn't taken academically able children previously and what they actually did was teach to the child's ability. So she did do a lot of the academics 1 to 1 as she was the most able but the support and learning outside of the academics (which was most important) was done with her peers sometimes just two and occasionally four (which was her whole class)

Yep, looked at them. It doesn't help I'm right on the coast which somewhat halves the options available.

OP posts:
SEND2022 · 07/11/2022 23:01

AntlerRose · 07/11/2022 21:35

This is tongue in cheek, but she probably will have behavioural issues before too long if they keep not meeting need - and then she will fit the semh stuff available

There really is a lack of academically able asd provision. I just feel it would be so cheap to run compared to waiting for these children to be traumatised and then placing them with ptsd too.

Her "behaviours" are self harm and bolting so she definitely does display distress behaviours but not in a physically violent way towards others.

OP posts:
drspouse · 08/11/2022 11:34

There really is a lack of academically able asd provision
There is absolutely ZERO for children who have ADHD and the demand avoidance that goes with it but no diagnosis of ASD, which is my DS. He is only allowed to go to a generic SEMH setting because they are the only ones who can be bothered to work out how to cope with him. These schools are supposed to be for those who've suffered trauma, been in dreadful home situations etc.,. been taught to be aggressive by violent fathers, but don't have ASD, not bright but explosive children from caring homes.

Thatsnotmycar · 08/11/2022 12:01

I agree Drspouse, the range of SEMH provision is even worse.

DS1 doesn’t have ASD and for us it is the scarcity of SEMH schools for academically able DC who don’t display VCB that is the problem. I looked countrywide and there isn’t a single school suitable for DS1’s needs.

drspouse · 08/11/2022 12:05

I think Breckenbrough take SEMH without ASD - they are full but I think we are going to ask to go on their waiting list shortly, in fact. DS had a TA who had been to Breckenbrough and on to university and was an all round generally lovely young man.

Thatsnotmycar · 08/11/2022 12:11

Drspouse Breckenbrough are a NMSS, so being full on its own isn’t enough of a reason to refuse to name it in the EHCP and the LA can name them even if the school object.

They couldn’t meet DS1’s needs for a few reasons, including the complexity of his MH difficulties, but it is a good option for many.

ForTheLoveOfSleep · 08/11/2022 12:13

SEN schools with available spaces are practically non-existant. My daughter (ASD, GDD and profound learning difficulties) attends an SEN school that is a 50min drive away.
This September they had no reception intake due to lack of spaces.

Shinyandnew1 · 08/11/2022 12:20

She has her TAs, her own room, weekly OT and SALT therapists

I really feel for you. This provision simply wouldn’t be possible in my school as we are a small open plan primary with no offices or side rooms. Neither the senco or the deputy has an office.

Jules912 · 08/11/2022 13:38

drspouse · 08/11/2022 11:34

There really is a lack of academically able asd provision
There is absolutely ZERO for children who have ADHD and the demand avoidance that goes with it but no diagnosis of ASD, which is my DS. He is only allowed to go to a generic SEMH setting because they are the only ones who can be bothered to work out how to cope with him. These schools are supposed to be for those who've suffered trauma, been in dreadful home situations etc.,. been taught to be aggressive by violent fathers, but don't have ASD, not bright but explosive children from caring homes.

Does the SEMH school actually help him? DD's MS haven't completely given up on her but one possibility if she can't get an EHCP/ emergency funding is duel registration with the PRU. Which looks good on paper but standard behaviour management has little effect on her as she knows how to behave when calm but lashes out when in meltdown.

drspouse · 08/11/2022 14:14

The PRU my DS went to was heavily into parent blaming (though, being a primary school also had a reasonable set of actual primary school provision e.g. jolly wall displays, proper play, nice primary style topic work that DS likes e.g. a topic on the Titanic which he loved) and fairly traditional behaviour management (we pushed very hard for positive-only reinforcement which DS does well with).

His new SEMH school takes the children and parents as they find them, so the staff are pretty good for him on the whole (we won't talk about the teacher who thought it was OK to read Coraline to a group of children including adopted DS and likely LACs) but the setup is less than ideal, with the level of aggression by other pupils and the noise and chaos.

drspouse · 08/11/2022 14:15

@Thatsnotmycar DS isn't ready to move to boarding yet, so Breckenbrough would be a couple of years ahead anyway.

hiredandsqueak · 08/11/2022 14:39

@drspouse If you are considering Breckenborough you might like to look at Brantwood Specialist School in Sheffield. My dd thrived there and left with a clutch of GCSEs.

Soontobe60 · 08/11/2022 14:41

Bobbybobbins · 07/11/2022 00:07

My eldest is at an enhanced resource ASD primary school and I feel this is a great option for more able autistic children but not sure if they exist everywhere?

I worked in a school with this provision - until the school could no longer afford to keep funding it and then the resourced provision was shut down, much to the detriment of ell children.

AntlerRose · 08/11/2022 14:49

Anyone surrey/hampshire - there is Kite who will do eotas and use alternative provisions like farms that offer emotional therapy to do group work.
Its not a school so not perfect, but might be better than a damaging school.

I think so many of us have had this problem. You just grow up thinking children go to school, some go to special school and until it happens you have no idea how few special schools there are, how they vary nationwide, how not every specialism exits, that there are thousands getting no education at all for long periods of time.
This crap wasted my sons childhood basically. He is in year 8 now. Too late, he never got a key stage 2 at all.