To think we can't expect the council to be responsible for everything?!

[AMAcarer]

In the run-up to Bonfire night, I noticed a lot of complaints on social media about the decision of my local council NOT to hold a fireworks display, to save costs. People complained that it was a disgrace, as with the cost of living crisis children need something to look forward to, and that the council was "forcing" people to spend money to travel to other areas for displays.

This was followed up by many comments blaming the council for the rise in foodbank use, for the rise in anti-social behavior, for the rise in fuel poverty, poverty in general and how the council spending money on the annual Christmas market rather than the fireworks display was a slap in the face to parents on a low-income as their children would "have their noses rubbed in it" by their friends who had parents on a higher income and could afford to pay for some of the rides etc at the Christmas market. Yet they wanted the council to literally blow up money for a "free event" on Bonfire night which would also have had paid for rides and would be or 1 night only, whereas the Christmas event is a month-long and has many free activities and events

I have many gripes with our local council, but am I wrong to think it's utterly ridiculous to think they should be held responsible for absolutely everything, and for people to expect them to provide so many things for free? I'ts just not possible is it? They have opened up a fuel poverty scheme with ££££ of pounds put aside to help people yet some of the same people claiming from this scheme still want the money spent on bloody fireworks?! The same people who are complaining they dont get enough help to feed their kids over the holidays still want money blown up in smoke for entertainment? There has been major anti-social issues recently and of course, it's the councils fault for "not providing" for children and teenagers. My area is absolutely chock full of fantastic, cheap or even free things for children and young families to do, and for teenagers too! Many of it council provided already.

I have no children, and I have lived in EXTREME poverty in the past, I'm no stranger to food or fuel poverty, being on benefits, being on a low income, and feeling utterly helpless...but even at my lowest I still didn't expect the council to sort out every single aspect of my life. Has some of society become so expectant on others that we don't want to take any personal responsibility at all?!

Sorry for the rambling!

You aren't being unreasonable. There is only so much money, and councils can't really spend what they don't have. SO decisions have to be made.

I will say that I think it's important to avoid being completely utilitarian in community decision making. Communities do need events and people do need fun, and beauty. Even the poor who often won't be able to pay for access to those things.

On the other hand, who says the council always has to be the people who step up? At my last home, there was a pond nearby. Some of the men who lived around the pond would shovel the snow off and flood it with a small pump every night so it would be good for skating, and another family donated hockey nets. There are also other community organizations that could run events.

"I am unreasonable to think we can't expect the Council to be responsible for everything?"

Thought this was Sunak branching out into local Government for a minute.

Are fireworks "everything" now?

Also, Councils do not provide anything for "free". We pay for it through Council tax and general taxation.

It's totally legitimate for people to question how those funds are spent and discuss it.

Not legitimate for people to blame them for food banks or fuel poverty as neither are in their control nor remit.

And also sounds like many of the people posting such nonsense are probably not contributing overall to the budgets anyway (big indicator they are not if they think these things are "free") so even less legitimate to moan in that case.

Filling in 50cm deep potholes would also be "nice".

With regards to fireworks though, I think education on safety and of course the history of the night is important for children, but it's shouldn't be a given right for people to buy and let off fireworks. I would back a council-run event again pending the ban of fireworks from public sale, and their use restricted to events (weddings, sporting events, bonfire night etc) through proper pyrotechnic companies.

Why should they be banned? Plenty of people have the space and intelligence to use them safely on private property.

People letting them off on public property should be banned, yes. But why should people not be allowed to do this in a safe way on their own property in a suitably large space?

I think councils/local governments are absolutely essential, but I think us as a society need to accept that they cannot be held accountable or responsible for absolutely everything, we have a level of personal responsibility to ourselves, our children etc.

How funny that you wrote this but in your previous post to that criticised people for wanting to pass down an inheritance to their children i.e. taking responsibility for providing for their own family just as you suggest. So which is it? Should people take responsibility for their family, or give all their money go the council? They can't do both.

I think the point is that the Council's ineptitude cost it far more than a bolt would have in administration costs. All avoidable. Meanwhile they say they have no money.

Their budgets have been cut by an absurd amount and that is wrong. However, if they were doing the best they could with what they have, they would avoid wasting money on this kind of inefficiency.

A similar example is that my recycling collections have been missed the last two times they should have taken place. The first time they missed the whole road. Last time they emptied one of my recycling bins and not the other. Only had cardboard in it so not rejected for any reason. It was standing right next to the one they did empty.

This necessitates complaints, diversions from normal routes to come back to do it. Wasting not just my time but also their resources to deal with the issue and resolve it. This is basic stuff, not rocket science.

And incidents like this while small overall add up to thousands and thousands of pounds wasted every month on completely avoidable stupidity, which could instead be spend on social services etc.

You can bet if she fixed it herself and then it failed again for any reason in future they'd refuse to replace it saying she "tampered with their property".

Hmm, because it is your bin

It isn't. It's Council property.

(If your waste is contracted out, the delivery of the bolt is somewhat outside the council's control. The council can request the bolt delivery. That request goes to the contractor who then has their own admin system to process the request through and they might also be checking whether the request is within their contract)

If a Council contracts out services it is the Council's responsibility to ensure that said contracts are clearly drafted so that responsibilities and timeframes for delivery are clearly set out.

It costs 3k to resurface a 10 meter stretch of pavement

It doesn't. If you are paying that, then please explain why.

This kind of waste is part of the problem.

R.e. binbolt gate I sympathise with the poster. It sounds simple to try and fix your own lid on when the bolt snaps but it's not. I repaired my own and the refuse collectors wouldn't empty it. I came home to a note attached to it instructing me to order a new bin at a cost of £45 unless I can provide proof that it had been stolen or damaged by a third party, in which case they would send out a new bin.

Hahaaaa exactly. So fucking predictable. You can't win.

Because they have been fleeced for lots and lots of tax that should have been put in a fund to pay for said care. Government mismanagement of that money is the Government's problem to fix.

If they haven't actually paid anywhere near enough tax to fund it, then fair enough.

Or, they can stop taxing people so much and let them save to fund their own care.

Can't apply the highest tax burden ever outside wartimes and them refuse to provide public services and expect people to pay privately. That's a joke.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I suspect it would be big culture shock if I moved to England, or any of you moved to Canada.

For example, regarding the poster who needed a bolt for her bin lid... our municipal council doesn't supply garbage bins... you have to buy your own, or rent one. I think it's the same in most Canadian cities.

Can't apply the highest tax burden ever outside wartimes and them refuse to provide public services and expect people to pay privately. That's a joke.

But it's disproportionate eg a lot on income tax. House price growth should be taxed, it hasn't been earned, just luck of timing. If people want better health & social care then it needs more funding. We have an ageing population & shrinking tax payer base, the current model isn't sustainable.

That's not the Polegate to Lewes cycle path by any chance??

Anyway, If we're having to essentially go back to basics, what makes people think the council's don't need to do the same? I 100% agree with not blowing hundreds of pounds up on a one night event.

I don't think our council has ever done a firework display. Surely that's not their job? We have local sports group and our football club does a big one.

I don’t know if anyone else remembers this absolutely farcical situation. In 2015, one David Cameron, budget cutter extraordinaire, sent a letter to his local Council complaining of … budget cuts.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/11/david-cameron-slams-his-o_n_8531208.html

Councils cannot perform services without money. This is NOT rocket science.

Kensington and Chelsea, one of the wealthiest parts of the country, is not a good example of the average council and its financial position.

Reserves are held for crises - catastrophic flooding, pandemics, terrorist attacks etc - if a council didn’t have them, they would be financially unsound. Some councils do hoard, I agree, but there’s a correlation between large Tory-led councils who’ve disproportionately benefited from this government and those with larger levels of reserves. The deprived urban areas (those Rishi told Tunbridge Wells he’d be taking money away from) have nothing like those levels and many are indeed quietly on the edge of bankruptcy.

www.lgcplus.com/finance/reserves-drop-by-8bn-as-councils-brace-for-service-cuts-26-07-2022/

Read that letter again from Oxford. Most Councils have no way of building reserves. Do you suppose there’s a magic money tree? Of course, there is, for a few select people, the friends of government under these Tories. The U.K. is not corrupt at all, perish the thought.

I work for a local authority and it’s amazing how many people enter into any communication with you with a chip on their shoulder. People’s rudeness is staggering, especially when they’re asking (demanding) something.

I will always try and help people but when their first words to you are along the lines of ‘You’re probably going to tell me computer says no and fob me off’, it does sour your willingness somewhat.

The finer details of one woman’s bin bolt aren’t the point.

Its a small example of council’s incompetence. Apply that sort of mishandling to every enquiry about faulty council equipment and you can see how some councils haemorrhage money.

Enquiries such as Marsha’s could be directed to a pre recorded message or online link informing her of the procedure to follow or a code for a replacement part.

Instead this lady was given misinformation and fobbed off with false assurances. What a waste of everyone’s time and money.

What private sector roles are there where you have a captive “customer base”? I can’t choose whether to pay for council services and I can’t choose what council to provide those services. Similar to the obscene money CEOs of water companies make. I can’t choose to be a customer of them.

Private sector salaries are intrinsic to the value and profits those companies make.

Unfortunately some councils are run very badly.

Ours spent £250k renovating our small village library. Yes, it was a bit tired, but only really needed redecorating (which council hadn't done in the 20 years I'd lived here). It was closed for 6 months whilst they did lots of gimmicky things like "mood lighting" (i.e. a led lighting system that changed colour!), and outside decking area (that I've never seen used, even in Summer as the doors are permanently locked) and re-painted the white parking spaces in it's car park. It eventually re-opened and was basically the same, no more computers, no more printers, probably fewer books by the look of it. Heaven knows how they spent £250k on it - it's not as if they replaced the heating, windows or roof - the structure was basically unchanged except for a lick of paint.

Within a year the council closed it down! What a monumental waste of money. But it doesn't stop there.

When it closed, they stripped it of its equipment, books, etc., which were sold off for a pittance. According to the staff (relocated to a different library), nothing was kept and transferred to other libraries.

Then after another year and a local council election, the new party in power decided to re-open some of the closed libraries. Of course, they bought new and spent further tens of thousands of pounds re-fitting it again, putting in brand new shelving, desks, computers, printers, etc, restocking it with brand new books.

This same council has recently come up with a super-duper new idea to recycle food waste and with a massive publicity/media campaign, issued all houses with small plastic caddies to put out for collection. Sounds brilliant doesn't it? Trouble is, it's only about 10 years since they did it before, gave everyone caddies, but that scheme only lasted a couple of years. So, basically, nearly everyone still has the caddy they were issued with 10 years ago, and the council and bought and distributed virtually identical caddies and given them to everyone. So lots of people now have two! What a monumental waste of money! Again!

Basically, councils don't know what the hell they're doing. Departments don't talk to each other, and staff change so frequently, they don't know what's gone before them, so keep doing the same thing, same costs, same waste.