Quoted for job but invoiced per workman

[User1742777]

Hello, I was quoted £30 an hour from a stonemason. to remove a section of render from the rear of my house so I could see the condition of the bricks underneath (damp issues). They were maybe just over an hour so have invoiced for 1.5 hours (fine ok) but two of them arrived and I have been invoiced for two people, plus VAT the total comes to £108. My written message prior to this appointment was “The cost would be £30 p/h”. I just feel aggrieved do I really owe £108?

You're absolutely right, OP.

You communicated with one person who didn't tell you at all that there would be more than one person coming.

And presumably it didn't actually NEED two people for that job? What if he'd brought 3 - would you have to pay for them too???

The way I would deal with this would depend on if wanted to use him for more work.

Tbh OP be glad you're not charged travel time and petrol.
We live in rural France and no workman will travel 45 minutes to a job without charging.

You haven’t paid £60/hour.

From your OP it’s clear that you expected one person to carry out the work, but two people turned up.

You are being asked to pay £90 + VAT for 3 man-hours of work which = £30 + VAT per hour. Whether that 3 hours of work was carried out by one person, or by two people working 1.5 hours each, you’ve still had 3 hours of work carried out.

If you want to question the VAT being absent from the quote, or the fact they’ve billed for 3 hours when they were only there for 1hr 10min (which x 2 = 2hr 20m), or if you think the work wasn’t up to standard then those are separate issues that you are quite within your rights to address.

Are you using them for the rest of the job? If so pay it but take it as a lesson.

I did not have three hours of specialist work.

Of course you did. You had two skilled workmen coming and working on your home for 1.5 hours. That's three hours of their time to pay for, plus VAT.

If it wasn't specialist work, you could have done it yourself, surely?

My point is had one person came it would have taken 1.5 hours work as only one person was working the other person was overseeing / observing.

If the other guy was just learning and you're paying for him to be stood there whilst you talk to the stonemason, that really is taking the mick. I would probably ask them why the price change from £30ph which is what he quoted and get him to explain before deciding if you're happy to pay his possible apprentice. Then at least you'd know if you agree for the double charge.

I wish I could bring someone to work with me to observe and get paid double.

Unfortunately I think you'll have to call it a life lesson. I moved across to paying per job rather than paing per hour, because at that point I started to clock watch people thinking why are they sat there doing F'all on my money. Instead I now just say, "If it takes them a week to do a das' job, that' there problem, because I pay them for the job." That being said, to get a stone mason out to do a job (albeit drilling and cleaning up) for less than £150 is pretty good going in my area of the woods. But are you being unreasonable - I guess in one sense you are because you didn't clarify ho many hours of work there was in wriing, but morally, no, not really being unreasonable.

You are not going to get anyone to come to your house and do anything for less than £100. The price is fair. Don’t worry about the details. It’s done now and you haven’t been ripped off.

My point is had one person came it would have taken 1.5 hours work as only one person was working the other person was overseeing / observing.

But you still need to pay for their time. Maybe they're an apprentice. Maybe the job needed a second opinion. Who knows.

£90 plus VAT is bargain for a skilled tradesman. They were hardly going to come to your home and do a job for £45 - it's not worth getting out of bed once they've factored in all their other costs.

I've paid the invoice now, thank you for everyone's thoughts.

My point is had one person came it would have taken 1.5 hours work as only one person was working the other person was overseeing / observing.

But it would have taken longer for only one person, as presumably they both unloaded/loaded their van, set up their tools, tidied up the rubble, etc. 2 people on a job means the "main man" can concentrate on doing the job that needs skills/experience and doesn't have to spend time constantly walking up/down the drive to the van etc. Just because they only spent an hour or so actually "doing the work" doesn't mean that there was plenty of time setting up/putting away, plus of course the driving time to/from your home on top, during which they're not earning money.

If that's the case then they need to word their quote accordingly, I would take it to mean £30/hour for the job, irrespective of how many turn up.

Tricky one, just over an hour means about 2 hours 20 mins and they are invoicing for 3 hours which is shitty of them. But if there was no indication of how long it would take in the quote then that leaves it wide open. 1 person 1 hour 30 mins, 2 people 3 hours, etc etc. They've left the quote vague. I'd pay it and learn from it that next time I'd ask the question so I had an idea what I was paying.

You are not very clear op. You say you had a quote of £30 an hour, but not said if you were told how long it would be.
So really you didn't have a quote you had a conversation. He told you the rate per hour.
2 people turned up with the tools (which I doubt you and most people have). The skills to do the work. Did the job well, quickly and to specification.... charged you just£108 and you are moaning?

People like you really fuck me off. I am a Gardener and stopped quoting for one off jobs as I always got "oh when you're here can you just" .... being asked to do twice the work that I quoted for or being expected to do things for free. I once quickly fixed someone's loo and he got funny because I asked for £3 yes £3 for a pint. Never went back there.

People who don't read the full thread really fuck me off!

If 2 people worked for 1.5 hours then that is 3 hours work so £90 so £100 isn't wildly over

Obviously it will be per person. If it took 1 person 4 hours that’s the same a 2 people 2 hours. How can anyone not see that? The error is yours in not asking roughly how many hours the job would take.

Dp runs a repair business in the plumbing sector, he charges a call out-plus first hr is £80. Then reduces to £60 per hr thereafter. He refuses to quote at weekends or after hrs re after 5 pm—Mark up on all sales (Materials).
He's very detailed in his explanations to customers if there's a problem he tells them immediately there'll be extra to pay.

One of the issues is customers think sole traders or smaller businesses can just pop out or pop in, or just do this bit here for free or a BIT extra. Well no, it's a business, a business is designed to make money not pass the time.

I agree that the stonemason wasn’t clear at all in his quoting but I think you got a cheap job to be honest. My husband has a full time labourer that works with him that comes to all jobs even if he can’t do some of the work. The labourers costs are always covered in the price.

Honestly next time do it yourself. I don’t mean that rudely. I never call out builders. I do everything myself. The only time I would pay for someone is if I can’t legally finish a job myself. For example consumer unit installation. I’m not allowed to do this. But drilling holes in a wall- absolutely diy.

Not all of us do., When things are outside the contract that we agreed to, I ask the tradesperson if they can tell me "How much extra would it cost....." most fo the time the tradesperson says "Oh just add £20" or "I'll just fix that as I go".
There should always be mutual respect from the person paying for the job and the person doing the job to never take the piss... most tradespeople are honest and won't overcharge to do a simple additional job..

Oh God, I’m forever shouting at DP for doing this. He’s very “While the tradesperson is here we should also get them to look at XYZ or advise us on blah blah.” No, we should also then if they can quote for a further job which is XYZ, then hide and pay them to do it, not DP’s version which is basically “maybe they’ll tell us for free what needs doing, and we can DIY bodge it on the cheap”. He thinks he values trades’ expertise by asking but doesn’t actually put a monetary value to that expertise. Drives me mad (I’m freelance). By and large I end up doing the hiring and dealing with people because I don’t trust DP not to try to get people up ladders to look at something when they’re round to do something else altogether.

Overcharging is subjective and only in the mind of the customer.
If the business has a business plan taking into account variable and fixed costs. The charges will follow a linear pattern. They have to, it's a business. It's not personal, it's a transaction only.
Looking at the ops picture the discription is incorrect, the picture shows a square section cut out of the wall for inspection, not a few holes.