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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

When will this money crisis be over?

169 replies

Londonlade · 04/11/2022 19:41

How long is a piece of string but realistically when are people thinking this financial crisis will be over?! Or is it the new normal?

OP posts:
SisterGeorgeMichael · 05/11/2022 11:53

We can't stop eating.

Of course we can. Thousands of people die of starvation every year.

gianfrancogorgonzola · 05/11/2022 11:56

Brexit is absolutely a contributing factor! Shocked that ANYONE would still defend what had been categorically proved to be disastrous for the whole country but specifically the WC / LMC. Those without substantial, generational money who voted brexit have contributed to their own downfall.

TonTonMacoute · 05/11/2022 12:00

gianfrancogorgonzola · 05/11/2022 11:56

Brexit is absolutely a contributing factor! Shocked that ANYONE would still defend what had been categorically proved to be disastrous for the whole country but specifically the WC / LMC. Those without substantial, generational money who voted brexit have contributed to their own downfall.

Amazing how Brexit has affected the whole global economy!

gianfrancogorgonzola · 05/11/2022 12:04

TonTonMacoute · 05/11/2022 12:00

Amazing how Brexit has affected the whole global economy!

I actually said contributing factor. Which it absolutely is.

AntlerRose · 05/11/2022 12:10

gianfrancogorgonzola · 05/11/2022 12:04

I actually said contributing factor. Which it absolutely is.

Quite. All in the same storm, but we didnt keep our boat in good repair due to austerity, then kicked a hole in it due to brexit.

PurpleWisteria1 · 05/11/2022 12:11

Apparently we are in recession and everyone is broke but you wouldn’t know it from going out and about.
Half term everywhere I went was rammed with people spending money. Every kids day out, shops , restaurants had queues and were packed inside, supermarkets are busier than ever despite food going up people still have trolleys filled to the brim with non essentials.
No sign of anyone scrimping where I live!

Perfect28 · 05/11/2022 12:14

Newname, the 'cycle' is exactly what I'm saying is not inevitable. How can capitalism be deemed to be working when billions suffer on a cyclical basis?

mydogisthebest · 05/11/2022 12:15

ElmoNeedsThePotty · 05/11/2022 09:17

What does surprise me somewhat is how unprepared for this so many people have been.

Did people honestly think that stupidly low interest rates and very cheap food was going to last forever?

These things come in cycles as history shows, yet so many buried their head in the sand and thought this day would never come.

It's not just us either, this is happening on a global scale as will happen the more we become a global society.

Couldn't agree more.

I could not believe that we had low interest rates for so long. Far too long and then, of course, once they start increasing they just go on increasing.

Food has been far too cheap in the UK. The price of some items barely increased in more than 10 years. Our farmers need to be paid decent money for their meat, crops, milk etc.

Also so many people making such poor life choices. One of my neighbours is complaining bitterly about the cost of everything because she has 4 children! No one made her have 4. Does no one think about the future?

Newnameoclock · 05/11/2022 12:21

Perfect28 · 05/11/2022 12:14

Newname, the 'cycle' is exactly what I'm saying is not inevitable. How can capitalism be deemed to be working when billions suffer on a cyclical basis?

Cycles end. Read my first post... Cultural change/shift will happen as a result of this crash and inevitable war/revolution. You can't get change without some upheaval.

ChristinaXYZ · 05/11/2022 12:29

BCBird · 04/11/2022 20:00

I not thick but I don't understand what is going on. How can the price of good be soaring do high? Can there not be some sort of government intervention? It seems the price surges are much higher than the suggested cost of living increase.

Most people don't understand what is going on. It is not you. There is little or no economic education in this country.

A really big problem in people's understanding is the concept of price. On the one hand it is just what you pay and that affects your family budget in a micro -economic sense. Understandably that is what people focus on.

In the macro-economic sense price has a function. It goes up because of constraints on supply or increases in demand. Or both. The government cannot help supply problems from Ukraine which affects food and the price of fuel. Demand is where it has to act.

If prices go up and up then wage demands go up and up and we get into an inflationary spiral which has to be stopped. Or you end up with no-one trusting the currency and hyperinflation meaning prices going up day to day, hour to hour. (This won't happen, don't worry, they won't let it).

The government can brake a lot wages because they pay them. Teachers, nurses etc. They are not just being mean, nor just trying to balance the books, they want to damp down demand. The economy needs you to have less money to spend. No-one dare explain this.

The Bank of England which is independent of government and is supposed to keep inflation under-control is putting interest rates deliberately to make our mortgages and loans cost more again to damp down demand.

The above is painful but some pain now means less pain later. There is a strong argument that the BofE should have moved earlier on interest rate rises. Sadly for the economy to stabilise they (both the Tory government - any government in fact - and the independent Bank of England) need us to be able to buy less. Only our buying less will force prices down again and wages demands to stabilise.

Cailleachian · 05/11/2022 12:30

I think we are headed into a major, major depression, and its not likely to get better any time soon.

Historical Factors
The causes of the 2008 recession - hyper leveraged assets who's risk level were obscured; zombie companies surviving on debt, capital exit to tax havens and state subsidies of wages have not been addressed. The debt that was exposed in 2008, was nationalised through the bank bailouts.

The austerity of the post-08 period saw a run down of civil infrastructure, adding costs to businesses (eg, poorer council bin collections = more business spending on refuse; poorer street lighting = higher electricity costs etc) and took a toll on people through poorer health, psychological wellbeing and emotional stability.

Stagnent wages became less of people's overall income as the baby boomers retired; more fell below the benefits line and people with assets monetised them through an increasing and poorly regulated housing market. This housing market, rather than wages, now came to define people's disposable income, where only low-wage people with property equity could survive and high wage people without property struggled.

Covid mismanagement has killed tens of thousands of elderly people, releasing property equity, (condolences to anyone who has lost a relative to covid, I;m not meaning to be callous, just looking at the economic implications), while huge chunks of money have drifted into the economy with little oversight through covid business loans, furlough and PPE contracts, compounding the state debt problem started in 08.

The Situation Now
Brexit is the stupidest economic idea, in the history of stupidity , Tariffs, loss of trading agreements and increased paperwork adding to state, business and personal costs, yet there is a level of political and popular denial of this.

The Truss Government, following on from a period where we had no effective government for months created a financial crisis, where over-leveraged pensions that have now been drawn into the over-leveraged asset bubble, were at risk. So the Bank of Englands attempt to start to deal with the state debt had to be reversed on a handbrake turn, incurring even more state debt.

Keynesian economics would tell us that the state should spend spend spend and refloat the economy, but the state is already overindebted and the effects of the covid liquidity release are now filtering through in higher prices. Increased state spending would increase inflation, potentially risking currency collapse and hyper inflation.

Monetarist economics would tell us that the state should impose stringent austerity to regain control of the debt, but the level of dependency on the state from retirees, low wage employees and businesses mean that this would spiral into a collapsing failed state.

The Future
Climate change is real, very real, scarily real. It is going to have enormous impacts very, very soon. The conditions for growing food are deteriorating, extreme weather events are causing major disasters and air quality is declining. This all adds to the burdens of states, businesses and people leaving it increasingly more arduous to meet basic needs.

A consequence of the increased survival difficulty - poorer nutrition, longer working hours, less comfortable living conditions, is psychological difficulties which reduces the ability of people to be effective and productive. Techological developments in robotics, AI and automation will fill in that gap, further reducing the proportion that wages make to people's survival ability.

In short, we are in for some very difficult decades with major global changes, and the UK has positioned itself in a terrible position.

Happy saturday!

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 05/11/2022 12:32

The government can brake a lot wages because they pay them. Teachers, nurses etc. They are not just being mean, nor just trying to balance the books, they want to damp down demand

They are being very mean, and have been so for the last 12 years with regard to public workers.

Newnameoclock · 05/11/2022 12:34

Newnameoclock · 05/11/2022 12:21

Cycles end. Read my first post... Cultural change/shift will happen as a result of this crash and inevitable war/revolution. You can't get change without some upheaval.

Quoting myself here to add that I feel we are moving into an age of ultra conservatism. The hyper policing of speech and thought and literature that is in its infancy now is going to bite us in the bum later

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 05/11/2022 12:44

I think the opposite. People are sick of this and want change. Millennials will be in power soon. They socially aware.

Manekinek0 · 05/11/2022 12:45

It's going to get much worse before it gets better but I do think the outlook is bleak. I honestly think we are in a new normal and living

Manekinek0 · 05/11/2022 12:45

Standards will continue to drop. Fossil fuels are very limited and we have kicked the can down the road for too long.

CaveMum · 05/11/2022 12:49

Really interesting and informative thread. Thanks to all the contributors.

runjy · 05/11/2022 12:53

The government can brake a lot wages because they pay them. Teachers, nurses etc. They are not just being mean, nor just trying to balance the books, they want to damp down demand. The economy needs you to have less money to spend. No-one dare explain this.

that's a risky strategy when the services are already suffering staff shortages.

Only our buying less will force prices down again and wages demands to stabilise.

that's the theory but we are a far more unequal society than 08 so Im not convinced how much they will get a handle on it. They will need house prices to fall for more impact imo.

runjy · 05/11/2022 12:58

How can they justify increasing council tax again? I'm so fed up, have a good career but I just can't save and fed up of paying for everyone else when I know I'm old there will be nothing left for me.

taxes are only going to keep going one way, we can't support the ageing population otherwise

Blibbleflibble · 05/11/2022 13:08

It might turn into a depression, I was wanting to move house but now considering just battening down the hatches to ride it out since our home only band C and 70sqm to heat (although not very energy efficient). We are middle incomers but in a fairly stable position. Nothing is coming back down in price. X

The only hope is wages increase to match inflation and government start taxing the extreme wealth of those that have profiteered from disaster capitalism, but that won't happen under the Tories (and maybe not under Labour since they seem afraid to stand up for the working classes nowadays)

I think interest rates will probably stay at 5% for a while once they're up there.

DowningStreetParty · 05/11/2022 13:12

There’s nothing inevitable about wages rising to keep up with inflation unfortunately. hasn’t happened significantly since the 2008 economic crash in lots of sectors in the UK.

DowningStreetParty · 05/11/2022 13:18

2008 was just as a recent example.
I think PP was bang on who said that now we are globalised and interlinked much more economically, the economic volatility is globalised. So in that case what incentives are there for wage rises in the UK?

vera99 · 05/11/2022 13:38

Charlie Munger is 98 and the Vice Chairman of Berkshire Hathaway the most successful investment fund of all time (along with Warren Buffett) he has seen it all and his marbles are still more than intact. So his views and wisdom are always worth a listen. Inflation is the greatest danger - destroying a currency and printing money eventually causes economic ruin and ultimately destroys democracy.

Bard6817 · 05/11/2022 13:59

carefulcalculator · 05/11/2022 11:30

Only die hard Brexit voters are still refusing to admit Brexit is a cause.

Of course it is a cause! It is a major additional shock to the UK economy and we have introduced additional costs into our supply chains and to businesses.

Brexit was a shit idea, and we can now watch it in real time.

Hahaha.

Yeah of course. Brexit is why fuel went up and the US is having a oil war with Opec to keep prices low and why timber prices in the US tripled.

Its going to get a lot worse before it gets better and Brexit is just a very small part of it.

The US strategic reserve won’t last forever and if you thinking oil prices are high now, Opec knows the west is on a march to eliminate for what many, is their only export.

cheapertorent · 05/11/2022 14:28

When will be the right time (considering the country’s economics) to buy a house, does anyone think?

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