To think the housing boom has falsely made the U.K. think it was rich

[Upthebracket22]

The U.K. manufactures very little these days - we import a lot of things. Brexit really has caused a lot of export issues to Europe (which was our closest large market) for many businesses. I know people are talking about Ukraine a lot at the moment but actually it’s brexit that has also done a huge amount of economic damage.

A lot of the money rolling around in recent years has been created by the housing boom- people getting building work done, using the equity in their houses to buy cars & holidays etc. Everyone felt wealthy.

The cheap money is coming to an end and so people don’t feel so rich. It’s more expensive to borrow money accross eve board.

It really feels like the U.K. is going through such a shift - hopefully we’ll come out the other side but it feels bleak at the moment.

And yes I do blame the tories for a lot of this but Blair also as he started a lot of it too. And it was the 2008 financial crash that caused the low emergency rates we have been on too. Obviously brexit is Camerons fault.

I just don’t think basing a lot of your economic model on rising house prices has been a good thing!

Degrees in social studies
Psychology
International relations

Psychology seems to be one of the more saleable degrees at the moment, although personally I’d prefer more old-fashioned teaching. The others allow an understanding of the society we live in, although again plain old history will do that - and understanding does not equal power for change. It is the disconnect between knowledge, practical value to society, and our society’s desperation to value and grab only cash that is one of our major problems. We do not value knowledge any more, or have forgotten its practical applications in favour of … what exactly? Political correctness and games, it seems like.

Only yesterday I saw a job going at 20k asking for skills, experience and qualifications, which is what you’d expect for a school TA post to help children learn, or a health care assistant to keep people safe and well. It was for a cleaner.

Hence the shortage of doctors, nurses, builders, plumbers, drivers, but a massive surplus of people with, say, humanities, degrees working in shops and call centres.

Those are different circumstances. The shortage of doctors and nurses is driven by poor working conditions / wages in the much-maligned and unvalued public sector, connected to the relative value of unskilled jobs as above, the cost of living and now the cost of debt.

The shortage of trades is more down to chasing degrees, although it’s also worth remembering that those are still very much men’s trades with many barriers to entry and continuity for women and girls. Specifically, the sexual harassment and danger they are put in from men. It would be nice to see that tackled for all manner of reasons.

The shortage of nurses and doctor is driven By not training enough nurses and doctors as these places are controlled. This THEN leads to vacancies which THEN leads to burnout and people leaving the professions.

This sums it up.
Banks too were falling over themselves to lend money, unlike now.
I remember about 10 plus years ago getting offers of £25k loans to spend TODAY on whatever you want, almost every other month .

I tore them up and binned them, but my neighbour fell for these offers and had to seriously downsize years later due to massive debt caused by “ Free” money.
Banks were lending against homes.

Re Uni Degrees- What is needed are skilled trades, Good skilled trades are hard to find, and there is a real shortage.
Bus drivers- No one wants to drive a bus here in SW area , they earn double by driving HGV’s without passenger abuse
Degrees are so commonplace now, are they actually valued ?

*Only yesterday I saw a job going at 20k asking for skills, experience and qualifications, which is what you’d expect for a school TA post to help children learn, or a health care assistant to keep people safe and well. It was for a cleaner.•

That’s crazy.
Qualifications for cleaning?
Common sense, diligence, honesty and thoroughness are qualities a good cleaner has ( Never employed one, however), But asking for experience is ok.

Didn't the rot start with Thatcher deregulating the mortgage industry and introducing the right to buy?

My DS is paying for a Graphic Design degree. He, and I- know that you shouldn't need a degree to become a graphic designer. But you find me an employer who will pay more than minimum wage for a non-degree (self-trained) GD.

'You can get apprenticeships'- show me.

I know people who are inheriting a lot of money from relatives who bought houses with they were affordable. It's not just making people feel rich, it is making some very rich!
( I'm not in this category !!)

It’s a complex mix and the U.K. is good in some sectors thankfully. Interesting piece the other day re China who would like to be less about manufacturing things for other countries and export their own ideas for other countries to do it.

It’s likely a mark of where we are in industrialisation but I wouldn’t underestimate what we do well.

I literally explained that there were a number of people undertaking them in my organisation (including in the team I lead). For graphic design specifically I don't know, but certainly I know first hand that they exist for law, accountancy etc

Could you link to these apprenticeships, please?

Just checked. There are 4 level three (A level equivalent) apprenticeships in Graphic Design (one is actually marketing) available England-wide. Closest is 113 miles away. They pay £9,100 p.a.

No level 4, 5 or 6 whatsoever.

These are the legal ones www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/law-sector/law-apprenticeships

one of my apprentices was offered an apprenticeship because they were doing such a good job with our legal admin. The other already had a level law and applied when we advertised.

I readily admit that law and accountancy are outliers in terms of needing Degree entry.

There's more of a 'work your way up' going on, there.

Think this sums up the state of our country perfectly! Good comment

If think it extends to schools too, i.e. teaching what the politicians/academics want to teach rather than the skills that are needed for modern work/life.

How many people really need to know trigonometry or solving quadratic equations? Yet everyone is taught them. Just why? A tiny proportion of people go onto "need" to know how to calculate the volume of a sphere, and those who do can now just download an app to do it for them.

We really, really, need to start working backwards from work/life skills actually needed, right back through Unis, sixth forms and into secondary school years.

Well whoever thought the referendum was a good idea need they're heads looking at. What happened to that £354 million a week for the NHS that Johnson was banging on about?🤣🤣🤣A lot admit they regret voting leave. I wanted to vote remain but the week before I got a letter for an important hospital admission for my daughter. So it was too late to change to postal vote.

Productivity in the UK was actually pretty good under Blair and in deed previous Govt's, relative to other countries.

Its the UK's inability to invest that has done for us, so much of the UK is falling to bits, other countries have invested, hence despite working fewer hours, productivity is much of Europe is higher.

Unfortunately, Brexit, Covid, the Ukraine war have shown this up as a huge mistake, we still have no industrial or investment plans, the Govt's only response seems to be to build more houses.

I think a lot of the problem re businesses are that the venture capitalists have basically taken over. Small firms can't get bank loans to fund growth - banks want small business owners to secure loans against their homes! Bigger businesses typically get bought out by venture capitalists who then merge, sell or asset strip, or bought by foreign companies. There's really little or no way of a small business getting funding to grow in the UK, hence they either stay small, close down, or sell to venture capitalists/foreign firms. Just look at most of our "household names" - nearly all are owned by foreign businesses or venture capitalists. The UK stock market works for the benefit of venture capitalists, not the country, not the businesses, not the staff - it's basically just betting on share prices going up/down, rather than it's historic core purpose of providing funding to businesses needing it for growth!

Just look at what the financial markets did to Liz Truss! They rule the country, regardless of what politicians do. The real illusion is that we, the public, can control any of what's going on - that ship has long sailed!

@taxguru

I think a lot of the problem re businesses are that the venture capitalists have basically taken over. Small firms can't get bank loans to fund growth - banks want small business owners to secure loans against their homes!

I agree. I've been an accountant for over 30 years and despair at how difficult it is for small businesses to raise funds if the owners don't have savings or borrow against their home if they have equity. Banks really aren't interested and we're a few decades past the days of local bank managers making informed decisions about viability of local businesses needing funds for growth.

The stock market isn't interested in smaller businesses - they're looking at businesses wanting millions (even on the unlisted AIM market which is aimed at smaller businesses).

Even businesses with big ideas only get funded if the venture capitalists think they can sell their share and make huge profits within 2-3 years. Just look at Dragon's Den - they're not interested at all in small businesses that will take many years with slow growth. They want their money back, and more, within 2-3 years from fast growth businesses that will be easy to sell on at a huge profit.

Where's the help/support for smaller businesses? After all, smaller businesses employ the majority of the working population, but they're basically left to fend for themselves, use/risk their own money for growth etc. They need house prices to rise to be able to "release equity" to fund their business growth.

Yes.

The health service is stretched because of underfunding not immigration. Immigration is one of the reasons why is is just about managing to stay afloat.

MadeleineMummy

There has been mass immigration into UK. This and the aging population have stretched the NHS. Been working in it all since the 90’s. You might not like people saying it because it doesn’t fit your ideology but it’s what has happened and services can’t cope.

I think the housing industry was created by Tatcher and was enthusiastically followed by her successors. To replace lost manufacturing jobs new industry, housing, was introduced that employed 1000’s people and created big wealth for few. From my experience nowhere else in Europe the process of buying/selling properties is as complex and complicated like in UK. There is so many middle man making profit on a simple transaction. It provides employment for lots of people so as a result the house prices are higher that what they are actually worth. I find it hard to understand why old, falling apart houses as Victorian’s or Georgia’s are so expensive and in demand compared to new builds. I admit they look nice and are very spacious but are completely not fit for purpose nowadays. They are not insulated properly, cold, damp and should really be demolished and rebuilt to modern standards. I have only saw few that were modernised and brought to the decent standard of living. My friends from countries with much colder winters than here can’t believe when I tell them that it’s not unusual for people here to have a temperature below 16 degrees in their homes. In many other countries even the poorest people have much higher temperatures in the winter, here often wealthy people live in conditions that elsewhere would be classified as extreme poverty…in places like London lots of the homes are seen as an investment rather than homes for living. I often hear comments from friends that they are millionaires because of what their houses are worth rather than what they are actually have in their pockets and their standard of living is far from decent compared to middle class in other European countries.

Manufacturing is still huge in the uK - we are still the world’s 8th largest manufacturer or so despite not being such a huge country. The idea that manufacturing brings a better type of wealth than services is rubbish anyway- it’s usual for more low skilled manufacturing to move to lower wage countries as countries develop. House prices have risen a lot as supply has fallen.

I think you are the one bound by ideology rather than fact.

NHS Waiting Times and Immigration

numerous studies have shown that immigrants tend to be younger and less reliant on healthcare and in fact are net contributors with taxation and also tend to prop up major parts of the NHS.

This shows that neither party want to address the issues around immigration and Brexit because the electorate are driven by ignorance and prejudice rather than cold hard pragmatism and facts.