To not understand what to do here - 4 month old naps/bedtime

[Nodyourhead]

I’m trying to establish a routine for my just turned 4 month old. Thus far we have no routine. She’s very difficult to get to sleep during the day and in the evening then falls asleep at night and is overtired and often misses a feed.

im embarrassed to even say this but yesterday her day was, wake up 7.30am, finally napped at 3pm for 40 mins then Was incredibly upset and cranky so I let her fall asleep on the boob from say 4-5.30 then she didn’t sleep again until 10pm!!! Didn’t wake for her feeds at all so when I woke at 4.30am I panicked and lifted her to feed. (Her last feed had been 8pm)?

she used to fall asleep downstairs in the bassinet easily enough but now I’m reading about routines and it says naps should be in the same place, and bedtime after a routine no later than 7.30pm in a dimly lit quiet room.

my issue is that guidance also says not to leave baby alone during the day or night until 6 months.

so do I now just spend my evenings in a dimly lit quiet room from 7 on? I don’t mind doing this if it’s recommended but what about if there are visitors etc.

Am I just misunderstanding this whole thing?
please be gentle with me - I’m very anxious she’s not getting enough sleep for her development.

sometimes when she has a day like the above she will sleep loads the next day to catch up. She also generally falls asleep straight away in the car and with a bit more work in the pram at any time not nap times so again I think she’s very overtired.

At this age, right or wrong, I still cuddled both my babies for naps. I found if the 1st nap went well, then the rest would follow.

Look up wake windows for her age. I usually went with 1.5-2 hours at that age, so after that time, id get myself a coffee and a snack, get set up on the sofa and breastfeed baby until they were asleep and then get cosied up for an hour or so, while they snoozed. I did this until around 6 months and by then, they knew that they would go to sleep when tired and both mine have always been very receptive to naps. It might not work for everyone but definitely did for us.

If it's nice weather, then I would get out for one nap in the pram during the day, and obviously baby would sleep in the car if we were out. I also used the sling with my 2nd baby for a lot of his naps as I couldn't commit to sitting on the sofa all the time with my oldest here.

I know this isn't the 'right' way and not what the books advise but it worked for us, it meant everyone getting some rest and a well rested baby = a happy baby!

Sleep advice is very conservative these days because everyone takes a risk averse mindset and seem to have to tell you about every little thing which I think just increases anxiety. Use common sense. At 4 months you are past the peak of SIDS risk and I would not be concerned about a baby sleeping in another room, especially if they are sharing your room for the majority of the night.

Apparently they only changed the wording because people take it very literally and thought that they had to put the baby to bed in the parents' bedroom, rather than understanding that the reduction in risk comes from being near an adult. But again remember this is just information about what reduces (an already very small at 4 months) risk, it is not absolute "you must do this at all times". Use it as information along with all other factors (what's convenient for you, what is soothing to your baby, for example) to make a decision about where your baby sleeps.

Her brain will develop fine whether she has a routine or not. Relax

There used to be an app called Huckleberry that would track/predict nap times for you which I found brilliant, unfortunately they started charging for that feature, but it might be worth paying for a month and then cancelling it after that month, since once you have the routine it tends to be easy to carry it on yourself. Otherwise you can try observing her and working around that.

Hi op just wanted to say you aren’t bad at this. You sound like you are doing all the right things. There is a sleep regression at 4 months and for us it lasted 8 weeks. Sleep was awful for that period. Wake windows did help a bit and we found that sleep begets sleep at that age.
My DS has always needed motion to sleep — I used the sling and pushchair up to 6 months for naps. The sling worked well because he would nap while I pottered about especially if raining.
I’m still sitting in the bedroom with him all evening at 15 months because he won’t go in a cot and is co sleeping (not safe on bed).
No idea how to fix it!

Also just to add, I never put my babies to bed on their own until 6 months, I just sat with them snuggling me downstairs on the sofa feeding as needed.

I think we put our DS to bed at 5ish at that age and our only plan was to not let him nap past 4pm. It worked on the whole, we didn’t get full nights obviously at that age but it’s mainly about just trying to get them in a routine of “bedtime” so if they wake up it’s not playtime and they are just changed and fed and back to sleep. We didn’t worry about scheduled naps during the day and just let him sleep when he was tired.

It’s completely up to you as to whether you leave them upstairs while sleeping or napping. We did and he was in his own room from 8 weeks because he was just so noisy in our bedroom, no one was getting any sleep. I’d be a bit more relaxed at leaving them upstairs while you have some time to yourself in the evenings especially if you have a monitor on.

with my first we used wake windows, from memory around 1.5-2 hrs at 4m. my second is currently 4m old and he just sleeps when he gets a chance, so some days he gets some good naps and others he only has short naps. Will generally only nap for any length of time on me/in the sling. otherwise he naps in the cot in the kitchen, in his lie flat bouncer thing, or on the floor on his playmat but for only 20 min or so. we have a loose routine but no real sleep routine for naps. I stressed a lot about sleep with my first and it was awful, going with the flow this time and it's much nicer.

My little boy was the same with his naps until I started to learn his tired signs! He was about 3 months old when I finally worked it out and he would have a nap in the morning and one in the afternoon. Still does now and he’s 1! We would put him to bed and watch him on the monitor, he was about 2 months old when we started that! It wasn’t practical going to bed when he was. He was in his own room at about 4 months old we would always disturb him when we came to bed! He doesn’t sleep in his cot during the day, never has really I have to put him to sleep in his pram still 🙄but if it works, it works!

I kept mine with me for all sleep til about 7 months. However, he slept anywhere from birth so if I was in the kitchen, so was he, sitting room etc. We had a moses basket for downstairs that we would move around with us and we would transfer him to the snuzpod in our room when we went to bed. He was in the corner of the sitting room, away from the TV in the evenings, no need to sit in a quiet, dimly lit room! Obviously the TV wasn't blasting and we use lamps not overhead lights but I wasn't being a martyr to the advice.

Never did overnight feeds once he slept through from about 7 weeks but he was a 95th percentile baby and didn't need them.

If we were out and about, he would fall asleep in car or pram if he needed it.
I never had a routine, just let him regulate when he wanted to sleep and he gradually fell into one.

You said ‘allowed her to fall asleep on the boob’. Feeding to sleep doesn’t create bad habits, it’s biologically and developmentally normal and is literally natures tool to help you get your baby to sleep.

your milk even has hormones at certain times of the day that help baby sleep. Breastfeeding to sleep

It’s not realistic to stay with a baby 24/7. It’s just not. And it’s impossible if you have more than one child.

if it’s awful weather and your baby needs to sleep, pop him/her in the pram and rock back and forward with your foot while you have a cup of tea.

Is she over tired or is it the 4 month sleep regression which is desperate but does pass.

There's also one at 8 months btw.

Ah I think 4 months is about prime time for feeling like it’s all going wrong and you’ll never get it right.

Everything is a phase. Be kinder to yourself.

I was one of those nutters with my first who had a rough plan of the day based on awake windows. So I’d know what time she needed to be awake to nap again at X time and I’d wake her up.

It sounds insane now but it made perfect sense to be at the time! And she is a brilliant sleeper to be fair.

I do think a good bedtime routine from a young age is a good idea though. I genuinely think having that the same every day from before they were old enough to question it is one of the reasons both of mine go to sleep without problems at all at 6 and 4.

That and luck. A lot of stuff with kids is luck. You’re doing great.

Sorry, wasn't saying don't have an evening- just keep the baby downstairs until you're ready to go up. So if you have visitors take turns cuddling her while she sleeps or let her sleep in something downstairs.

I agree feeding to sleep is fine, and it's a lot to do with luck especially at this age!

When she's older she will need a proper routine but don't make a rod for your own back by insisting on one at this age!