To think it’s crazy that a p/t work contract can do this?

[NellesVilla]

Hello!

I'm trying to get a mortgage alone for next year and need additional hours so have accepted a lovely admin job. V easy, pleasant job/workplace, nice hours etc. Extremely low hourly rate but feel this reflects the low pressure and stress. Just outside Brighton.

But…the contract stipulates that if you leave within 6 months (probation) you must pay them £1200 for ”training costs”. Wtaf? Especially when the training is on the job.

I was shocked and worried to read this because to be honest- with my mh issues- I am a flight risk and can’t guarantee I would last this long. I’m concerned I’d be obsessing over the time limit set out for this. Does anyone know for sure these days?!

I’ve already been stung this way in the past. I had a teaching post at a SEN school and upon arrival we were ‘welcomed’ with a £1,000 bonus which was repayable in the event of a resignation witching 3 months. I did indeed resign (and it was the best thing I did- no regrets) but I understood this to be fair as it was an ‘extra’ that I put aside in case I left iyswim.

This £1200 seems like a payment that maybe goes to finding another administrator, maybe? I’m shocked though; that the hourly rate is low, the training is about 15 hours and then you’re liable for this amount if leaving early.

Is this legal, please? Does anyone know?

No, it doesn't actually say that. It says she took this because she needs more hours. That could be what you've suggested or it could be that she's given up a job with fewer hours for this one that's more hours. It could be either way, the OP doesn't specify.

As an employer you sound like my worst nightmare

can you please please not do this to employers, I’m lucky I’m not worried at all about the future but to some employers you would be a huge hindrance. I find your attitude towards your potential future employer disgusting and selfish.

Yes I did read the link and this is also the area I work in. The link is all about when and how you can deduct for training courses. On the job training is not a training course and it is never ok to deduct money from an employer for the time a manager has taken to train them up in the job.

Wow... Disgusting and selfish??

As the OP is worried about her mental health??

You seem nice... In fact an excellent employer.... 😏

"Just because you read something in a contract doesn't mean you have to be stupid enough to believe it" says @Quveas

Classic Mumsnet that. Classic.

Why would you be intending to resign within 6 months anyway?

It's legal yes, but in the event that you do leave with 6 months they can't demand immediate repayment or withold your entire final pay as they have a duty of care not to plunge you into poverty such that you couldn't pay rent or eat. So if you do end up leaving, firstly do so immediately after a payday in case they try to shaft you, but also you acknowledge the debt but ask for an affordable payment plan to ensure that you aren't put into intolerable financial hardship - offer £1 per month.

But tbh if the job is good it's probably all going to be fine and you will be able to stay at least 6 months.

If you need the extra hours for extra money to get the mortgage, how would you intend to keeping paying it if you leave?

When I give someone a job it’s with the realistic expectation that if they want a job for life they have it. I never make anyone redundant. I never change anything in a negative way.

my employees very rarely leave and even when they do it tends to be retirement. Many of them ask to stay on part time.

i invest a lot of time and money in all of them and to think somebody joins me with every intention of leaving within a few months is a personal insult and shows me and my team a huge disrespect.

I help my staff with mental health issues and take great care of them at my expense. I currently have on off with very genuine mental health issues for about 8 months, I am still paying her full pay because I know she is totally genuine and will be back when she is ready.

one employee came to me a few months ago and asked for a day off because her dad had died. I told her to go home immediately, take at least a month and only then come back if she was ready. This was all on full pay.

i invest everything in my people, without them I am nothing. I expect them to enter my employment on genuine terms though, and this poster isn’t

She’s right though. Employers put things in contracts all the time that are t legally enforceable. Just because it’s written down doesn’t mean they can legally enforce it even if the employer signs it.

That was meant to say even if the EMPLOYEE signs it, not employer

The employer has a legally unenforceable clause in their contract, some employees may not realise this and pay it back when they cannot afford to. I don’t think the employer cares about their staff all that much, so why should employees care about the employer?

This but I still think it's not legal to pay for training and said YANBU

Even if there is a training course and not just on the job training, the signed document has to detail what the course is before the clause is enforceable. Vague clauses don’t stand up at all. There are several reasons why this situation is unenforceable and it’s in the op’s best interests to understand that (and any other employee). There’s always so much misinformation on employment posts on here.
op, if you’re not sure, contact Acas for free advice

So, you read the link you posted? Where, on the link you posted, does it say what you said? (It doesn't).

You're wrong by the way so you might want to get better at your job. "In some cases employers seek to recover costs for “on the job” training, and this is far harder for them to quantify the cost of this." www.pureemploymentlaw.co.uk/repayment-of-training-costs-is-it-legal/

Legal yes.

But I'm more concerned that you'd take on a job to get a mortgage - therefore take on a mortgage when you don't even think you'd manage to stick a job out for 6 months.

I get the MH aspect and needing to leave and support that.

But mortgages aren't cheap - are you taking on another thing to worry about?!

Im not wrong but you can continue to try and show that I am if you want to. This is my living and I see tribunal judgements, contract clauses, county court judgements all the time.
“seek to recover” is not the same as being legally enforceable and your link hardly backs up what you’re saying.

No, it says if it was in the contract beforehand, it's lawful.

@Anytimeiseeit no, she's not. Yes, some employers include clauses in contracts that aren't enforceable or are unlawful but unless you have a good understanding of employment law they're not always that easy to spot. Suggesting someone is stupid because they can't spot them is absolutely classic Mumsnet.

How many times, the link talks about training COURSES which op has said this is not!!! The link shows a situation regarding training where deductions can be made but this is not the situation the op has!!

This would make me worry it's not such a "lovely company". It suggests the role has a high turnover if they have to put such an obvious deterrent to leaving in the contract. Personally I wouldn't take the job, it says a lot about the company and clearly suggests they struggle to retain staff which is a huge red flag

I've seen this often with qualifications you can easily utilise, but not training.

Do you have any source at all for that claim? You keep spouting it, you provided a link that DOESN'T say it and refused to accept a link that says you're wrong. If you're going to keep giving OP incorrect advice then at least back it up with something.

OK so you're a paragon. Good for you. I too have been a very good employer.

I'm currently an employee, to an absolute shitshow of a company.

Your circumstances are very much not the norm, and even if you're as lovely as you say, you should appreciate that employees have their own experiences.

And frankly, if it's a worst nightmare for your business for someone to unexpectedly leave after six months, you need to buck up your attitude. Rehiring a basic admin role should not cause great anxieties.

On learning my organisation is paying £14k for my masters my new manager wanted to know what financial penalty there is linked to this to ensure I stay and don’t “use the opportunity and leave”. Er… my commitment is the 10 years I’ve already worked in the organisation and no, there is no penalty because it’s government apprenticeship levy. God she’s awful. There’s people who shouldn’t be managers!