I got a sick note to go on holiday

[Marleymerm]

Last month I worked at least 40hrs of overtime when my boss kept asking me to "stay late" or "just come in a few hours at the weekend" as we had a deadline approaching. I worked it and wrote it all in my time sheet, I work in an office so we don't have clock ins or anything.

Anyway, I got paid last week and got nothing for my OT, I asked my boss who said he only asked me to stay to help, he never actually agreed to pay me for it and he was asking me to "help the company" like we all should be doing.

I thought about fighting it but people in my office are petty and those above me would probably make things difficult for me. So instead I got a sick note from my doctor for 6 weeks for stress and booked a holiday. I've been honest with my work that I've booked the holiday and said it's to help with my stress, now my boss is saying this is clearly out of spite and he'll be giving me a written warning. However if he does that he'd have to formally admit to not paying me OT. I do feel nervous after realising I actually get full pay when I thought I'd only get SSP and now I'm worried my boss is going to take it further.

That’s why we have doctor, qualified in such matters, make the call. This particular doctor clearly thinks it’s something OP is suffering with, considering he signed her off for the duration of time that he did.

Presumably he took her medical history and ongoing issues into account as well.

So your Dp has done it…and your DC… what about you?

You are a complete fool if you think the only thing an employee has to sell (time) should be given up for free.

The only time working unpaid is acceptable is if you are self employed and building your own business.

If your DP did this for 30 years for someone else’s gain then more fool him. And if your kids are doing it now, stop them. It won’t get them anywhere except being taken advantage of.

You CAN blame your manager. Someone should be covering for your sick colleague, not you. If she is 'almost permanently' off then your manager can get someone else in, particularly as you are in the civil service so internal transfers are possible.

Your boss is in the wrong for not approving your OT. However to get signed off for 6 weeks and to tell your work that you’re going on holiday is a very naive move. Be prepared now for your work to get Occupational Health involved and Performance Manage you out. This will be relatively straightforward if you have a history for taking time off for MH as they will cite your job making your MH worse, so they will do it in your best interests!!

How does her manager 'prove' she's not stressed.
It's down to her GP. He's the medical expert and her boss can't just decide He's going to ignore his opinion.

I hope you don't work in HR. Of course unpaid overtime counts for minimum wage calculations. If it didn't then the minimum wage legislation would count for nothing.

What a mess @Marleymerm

You should have explained that with your stress, the overtime would be too much for you and not agreed to do it. That surely would trump any extra money you would have been expecting?

Your boss should've explained it wasn't paid

When you found out, you should've negotiated TOIL which would've benefited you. If your boss refused and o/t is normally paid or toil then HR should've been involved.

If it was indeed about the money then why are you spending money on a holiday.

You've clearly been unhappy in your work for a long time. Your previous time off for stress should've been looked at by HR.

What you've done is made your colleagues work harder and (rightly or wrongly) made yourself look like hard work and rubbing salt into the wound by telling them about your holiday. I appreciate it's allowed but you seem to be sticking two fingers up at your boss but also your colleagues. I believe you've created drama and conflict instead of asking for help. This has clearly been building to a head. It's not healthy.

Use your time off to put things in place. Find a new job as this one has broken down beyond repair.

The way you wrote your OP is completely different to what you’ve said subsequently. ‘ So instead I got a sick note from my doctor for 6 weeks for stress and booked a holiday‘. You only felt concerned when you realised you would be on full pay. Doesn’t make sense. And yes, what an amazing doctor you have.

You should have raised a grievance

Her GP diagnosed it. What a silly question.

Your mistake was telling them you’re going on holiday.

40 hours equates to one week, not six! And your thread title couldn't be goadier, could it!
normally I am totally in favour of 'sticking it to the man' but this is taking the p. Enjoy your holiday, I guess.

Exactly!

A massive oops, what have I said!

Exactly. If you have a history of being easily stressed you don't take on 40 hours overtime surely. Self care and all that.

Exactly - the grown up way of sorting things out.

And? My husband and I have done/do the same, but we sure as shit get compensated for it.

Would we do it in a minimum wage job with little opportunity for career progression and no thanks? When the boss is taking the utter piss? Absolutely fucking not.

Talk to ACAS, speak to your union rep(except your probably not in a union as people who should be due to this shit always have a reason not too).
You will need to get hold of your company policies on overtime, on the grievance procedure, bullying and harassment.

It's illegal to pay below minimum wage so they need to rectify this ASAP, ACAS can advise on this. Once you've gone through your internal process then it's employment tribunal, you can do this yourself but it's better to have support.

Look for another job or your health will suffer in the long term. Bad employers aren't worth killing yourself for.

With international travel I’m assuming not a MW job and was compensated fairly in a salaried wage.

The OP is paid hourly and has already said it brings her below MW. The employer has broken the law. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest she’s unreasonable to do 40 hours unpaid. I would be stressed if I gave 2 hours a day, every day, of family time and find that I’m no longer even paid minimal wage.

That seems ridiculous. Of course it matters if the sickness is genuine or if you have a doctors note. What if someone has cancer? What if they have been sectioned in a hospital as a member of my team at work has been? The employer can't just disregard genuine illnesses - physical or mental - just because it's government money!

40 hrs over a month is just over an hour extra each day. It's hardly a lot. Good grief!

Maths isn't your strong point is it? It's 10 hours a week, so two hours a day - unpaid and without the offer of TOIL. It's wrong.

My DH did that for 30 years! Plus international travel cutting into weekends and arriving home at midnight.

I do extra hours and international travel and I ALWAYS get my hours back.

It comes down to whether you enjoy work or not, and are a coper or not.

No it's about companies taking advantage and employees knowing their worth. Nobody should be expected to work an extra week in a month without either being paid or getting that time back.

As a manager id have a hard time proving that you have been signed off with stress out of spite. Your manager isn't a doctor and it would take a big set of balls to sit in a disciplinary and say that.

Doesn't mean what you've done is the right thing though. Two wrongs don't make a right.

What is the ‘custom and practice’ in your company OP? What does it say in your employment contract? Are there any OT policies? Have you been paid OT in the past? Is your contract clear? If so it’s reasonable for you to assume you’d be paid. If not then you should have clarified.

Regardless of the above a Dr has signed you off so legally whilst your company can penalise you for the number of sickness days, as per their sickness policy, they can not easily legally challenge the validity of your stress.

If they meet formally with you, you definitely need to stop associating the fact you took time off with the fact you weren’t being paid for the overtime (as in your OP you are making this seem like you took time of as you felt it was owed to you and depending on your employment contract and custom and practice within your company this is likely to be unjustified) and just focus on the fact you are genuinely stressed and legally signed off.

It depends what your contract says. If it says you get paid for overtime then you should be paid for it. If it doesn't then you don't.

Most 'professional' environments don't pay for overtime- people just work.late for their salary. It is ridiculous- eg in banking people can do 80 hour weeks and don't bat an eyelid. Those who don't do it probably won't progress. It is horrible and very hard to stop as it's engraved.

Back to you. The holiday and the overtime are two different issues, you are confusing the two. Most organisations I have worked for would take a dim view of you taking a holiday whilst off for stress unless you agreed it with HR beforehand. Yes, again it's ridiculous because are you really going to get better stuck at home? But it is the way it is.

Well you may get compensated for it, (with a good annual salary) but unless you are paid overtime which most managerial jobs don't pay, then you are working unpaid hours.

The OP was an idiot not to raise it.

If she is hourly paid - and has a time sheet- then that's the route she needed to go down.

Not the passive aggressive approach of being signed off 'sick' .

Yes, fine, take holiday but also pursue the company for payment for extra hours worked.

Going off with 'stress' won't make her a good employee in the future if she changes jobs as it will be on her records.

If you’ve got cancer you’d get more days and it would be a discretion, but otherwise that’s just how it works. You get paid 6 months for sickness so has to be some limitations. It was much more generous in the past but people take the P and it got changed from 12 days and 6 occasions to half of that. As I say there is discretion, set criteria and extra days for illness but it’s not based on whether it’s a genuine illness or you have a note or not