I got a sick note to go on holiday

[Marleymerm]

Last month I worked at least 40hrs of overtime when my boss kept asking me to "stay late" or "just come in a few hours at the weekend" as we had a deadline approaching. I worked it and wrote it all in my time sheet, I work in an office so we don't have clock ins or anything.

Anyway, I got paid last week and got nothing for my OT, I asked my boss who said he only asked me to stay to help, he never actually agreed to pay me for it and he was asking me to "help the company" like we all should be doing.

I thought about fighting it but people in my office are petty and those above me would probably make things difficult for me. So instead I got a sick note from my doctor for 6 weeks for stress and booked a holiday. I've been honest with my work that I've booked the holiday and said it's to help with my stress, now my boss is saying this is clearly out of spite and he'll be giving me a written warning. However if he does that he'd have to formally admit to not paying me OT. I do feel nervous after realising I actually get full pay when I thought I'd only get SSP and now I'm worried my boss is going to take it further.

Don't be silly

Please get your facts straight, this isn't harrassment (no breach of EqA due to protected characteristic has been made). Bullying will not hold water in a Tribunal as a stand alone category. Serving a written warning when someone is off sick is also not relevant. Your advice is muddled.

the OP (if they're even still looking at this thread) needs real world accurate advice, rather than made up garble by amateur armchair solicitors.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Chasing it and standing up for yourself would have been better going forward.
Now you've made relations worse than they were.

You mention past leave for stress OP. How much time have taken in the past for this? Sounds like you’ve found a GP that’s a bit of a pushover when it comes to giving sick notes. That or you know just the right thing to say.

As someone who is on long term medication for depression and anxiety but still goes to work every day you’re making a bit of a mockery of mental health issues because they’re so difficult to prove.

@daisychain01 the OP (if they're even still looking at this thread) needs real world accurate advice, rather than made up garble by amateur armchair solicitors.

I agree.
I don't understand why people come on these threads for advice on legal matters before seeing a solicitor.
The only motivation I can see with this crowdsourcing is that OP can collect all the replies and pick the one they like best.🙄

Yanbu if you are depressed. I once had 8 weeks off work due to severe depression, I was reviewed fortnightly by the gp and the absence procedure I had to go through at work was horrific. I left a few months after that anyway, but despite it being 4 years ago I still struggle when I look back at that point of my life.

Fwiw I think you did the right thing. You boss sounds ridiculous, and the HR team are crazy for supporting him.

Good for you.

You should have clarified with your boss if you would be paid or not particularly if you were going in on your rest days.
As to going on holiday whilst your on sick leave depends on your contact I suppose but mine states that we have to get permission of our line manager, but he certainly can’t tell you in advance that he will give you a warning. I would seek advice from your union (if you have one) or HR department.

I worked somewhere like this where they would pick and choose when they'd pay overtime and there was just an expectation to give your life up for them. The only sane thing to do was leave which is what most of the staff done whilst this particular manager was running it.

It's a tricky one though, I'd have been scared to get a 6 week doctors note if I was only doing it because I was annoyed at my boss. Would you have got that same sick note if they'd have paid you? That's how they will be looking at it. But I don't know where you legally stand with it all, so wishing you luck and I hope he acknowledges he was wrong x

You have a fit note from your doctor for work related stress. It’s says you are unfit to work for six weeks. You therefore can take the time off - your boss can’t discipline you for this. It’s a pity it’s come to this though, and you and he need a serious talk, maybe with HR help and/or mediation, so you can resolve issues more easily in future.

Shocking that your company think it's reasonable to assume people work 40hrs extra voluntarily.

Holidays during sickness may be frowned upon but unless it specifically says something about not being allowed in a company policy then they can be beneficial for someone suffering from stress (and/or depression).

Contact ACAS. Tell them the full story and see what they say about whether a written warning would be appropriate. They should be able to advise you on any next steps.

Good luck.

You have to wonder if the business is struggling and that’s why they made this decision and would quite like to get rid of people to avoid redundancy. However I don’t think you’re in the wrong- ‘just’ 40 hours can add up to a lot of childcare / social care costs for a family, it’s not really voluntary if you’re asked and he doesn’t have the skills to challenge a GP.

I would definitely be looking for another job and taking advice from ACAS, who are excellent. I’d also email HE stating that the hours were not voluntary as you were asked to do them, so it is on record.

I applaud you OP. Your workplace are bang out of order and don't deserve you.

I would forget all about it and enjoy my holiday and time away. Then when I came back I would definitely be pursuing my OT money.

Be careful about your contract and policies regarding attendance management. I’m public sector and part of our policy in local authority & schools is that line managers and employees are expected to plan Keeping in Touch’ meetings, throughout the absence.

Will this be possible if you are away? Could this lead to a disciplinary by your company/ public sector attendance management policy?
It would in my workplace.

Did you sign this when you started working for the employer? www.acas.org.uk/the-maximum-hours-an-employee-can-work/opting-out-of-the-48-hour-weekly-limit

Does your contract say you get paid for OT?

If you don’t know, then really it’s your own fault for being ignorant about what you’ve signed up to.

You should have checked this before agreeing to the extra work. Not blindly agreed to work extra hours for no pay.

A small amount of OT FOC is expected in some roles, it is in mine although I can take it in lieu if I so choose.

If an employee of mine went on the sick for six week at full pay (because in ignorance they did OT without checking their contract) putting massive pressure on the rest of my team, I’d be pretty cheesed off.

Woman up and check your contract, say no if it doesn’t suit you to work OT for no pay. Take responsibility for yourself.

Ignore all the do gooders on here telling you it’s naughty, don’t do it again. Absolute rubbish.
You worked 40 hrs OT you were not paid, which has knocked your hourly rate down to well below the minimum wage which is illegal and you would be well within your rights to report it to HMRC.
As for going off sick , good for you, I’ve been round the block a million times and employers will screw you over as soon as look at you.
Enjoy your holiday!

Agree

All I have to say is good for you and enjoy your holiday 🙂 They won’t be quick to take the piss out of you again

First and foremost, it looks like you’ve deliberately gone off sick to spite your boss.

If what you’ve done is fake that you are stressed is totally wrong and using a condition to your advantage just to get time off and a holiday. Especially when there are genuine people who are suffering from genuine full on stress, which makes them seriously unwell.

Clearly your boss knows full well why you’ve gone off sick, because you didn’t get your OT paid. Surely, if you knew you’d be working extra hours, you’d of confronted your boss first and asked what the terms of doing the OT was, if it was paid or unpaid. Assuming it wad paid
OT isn’t the right thing to of done, this needs to be agreed.

I’m not saying this is 100%, but this could potentially mess up your current position, cause you to be treated differently now, by the way of being untrustworthy, a snide and unreliable. Your boss is obviously unhappy about this and right to be giving you a written warning. He doesn’t need employees like that in his firm.

Also, this could mess up future employment as you may be refused a reference from your boss, on the basis you faked the stress to get time off and wasn’t honest.

This was a bad move. I would arrange a meeting with your boss, be honest with them and tell them how you are feeling and what you can do to make things right.

Maybe next time you choose to do OT, if he even bothers to ask you again, then maybe discuss the terms before agreeing to it.

If HR have also agreed your boss was in the right, then you really do need to use this situation a learning curve and move on. Don’t get on the wrong side of your boss, other colleagues and the company. Don’t take time off for stress and then book holidays as it looks totally fake. Ok your stress may be genuine, but this really isn’t how it looks from a bosses point of view.

Best of luck! Maybe some good old fashioned sucking up and a written apology to your boss
might be what’s needed here. 🫣

If you receive a written warning, you can put a grievance against the manager, also it would be a massive pain for them going through HR and also union, as they will back you up. There's no way to prove you being stressed or not, you have a sick note from a doctor, simple as that. They actually cannot dispute your stress as it has come from a healthcare professional. Also nobody can tell you what to do in your stress leave, you're off because of stress from work, there's absolutely no reason as to why you cannot go on holiday in this time. The whole point is to de-stress. Regardless of you being paid or not, you have had a VERY stressful month and very well been overworked and no thought for your mental health and this is the consequence to your employer, you being off sick. If they threaten again, just threaten back to say you will get the union involved and no company likes that especially when they know the balance of probability, you have your proof (sick note), they can't dispute it. Enjoy your holiday and time off it's well needed and deserved. If only you wasn't made to stress this way, but try to relax now if you can.

But as for the job, he boss and the company, she comes across as dishonest and untrustworthy now. This isn’t going to be very good for her now! She’s not done herself any favours, as it looks
dodgy. It’s not being a ‘do gooder’ as you put it, it’s basically saying she’s made herself look like she’s unreliable, a liar and deceitful.

Dependent on company attendance management policy of course. What you are suggesting may not be accurate, certainly isn’t in my workplace ( see above).

But as for the job, he boss and the company, she comes across as dishonest and untrustworthy now. This isn’t going to be very good for her now! She’s not done herself any favours, as it looks
dodgy. It’s not being a ‘do gooder’ as you put it, it’s basically saying she’s made herself look like she’s unreliable, a liar and deceitful.

You need to report them for wage theft. They don’t have to tell you if they are paying you over time, if you’re on an hourly wage, & you are asked to work beyond your regular hours, they have to pay you over time.

We all work for pay, not for fun. Most of us are stressed at work, but we do it for the money. When money isn't paid for our work, it's a lot more stressful.

I agree with this. And i think it's grossly unfair that she was asked to put in all those hours and then not paid for them, which wasn't the norm at her workplace. They're taking the piss. And it would have completely demoralised and stressed me out, too, had this happened to me. It's also why I work to hours at my job for the most part as they will take the piss if you let them.