The state pension is HOW MUCH???

[BeatieBourke]

Call me stupid (fair) but I've just realised how much the state pension is. £800 odd a month (£185.15pw).

As a non-means tested benefit. For EVERYONE.

I'm generally of the opinion that benefits are too low and too punitive. I usually advocate for universalism. I understand that people have worked their whole lives and paid in, and deserve a retirement. And that having pensioners in poverty does no favours to the economy or other welfare services.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE?? So a widower in rented accommodation with no other income or savings, £800pm. A wealthy 68 year old who's earned a 6 figure salary, has a huge property portfolio and investments coming out of their ears that pay a fortune out in dividends, £800pm. Seriously?

I understand that no party, least of all the Tories (because tory voters as a population are older) will ever go after pensions because it would be unpopular (and older people vote more generally). But in a time when the country is supposedly facing a financial "black hole" and everything else has already been cut to the bone for the last 12 years, why the hell are we paying out state benefits to millionaires?

Maybe if pensions were means tested (with a fairly high and tapering threshold) there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65, and more for people who haven't built up huge assets, can't afford to live, heat their homes or eat a hot meal every day in their later years. I can see the (cynical) political sense in it, but no economic sense whatsoever.

AIBU?

Of all OECD countries the UK has the lowest pension in relation to average earnings at 29%. The OECD average is 65% pension income compared to average earnings.
A full time job on minimum wage is about £20k pa and most people couldn’t live in that.

But we pay a lot more tax in Ireland generally than the UK does. Plus everything is more expensive here.

My parents are pensioners, and my mum gets €248.30 per week (as she didn't have full contributions) and my dad gets €263.30 (as he is over 80 so gets more). Dad also has a small private pension.
Maybe it sounds like a lot but they both started working full time at 14 and my dad worked until his retirement at 62.

They would be some of the wealthy people you are talking about OP, but most of their 'wealth' really comes from the fact that their house has increased massively in value over the years. They need somewhere to live, and that is their home and has been for more than 40 years.

It does scare me that things will not be so generous for me if I reach pension age, but I also had a much easier time of it in my earlier life than they did. I had more education, including university, better healthcare, I had foreign holidays etc. I don't blame them for having a financial cushion at this time of their life, for many years they struggled. The pension systems in many countries cannot continue the way they are now, but it's not the individual people's fault. Most people want to protect what they have.

Indeed.
Although I must point out the German pension model is on a trajectory for insolvency.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

The state pension is not a welfare benefit. It is a pension that people will have contributed to throughout their working lives. So they have an entitlement.

Also pensions are subject to income tax. So the millionaire with a huge private pension will pay tax on income including their state pension. While others on much lower incomes may fall below the income tax threshold.

I don't know why people say this because the electoral conseqeunces of removing it are colossal, we will presumably have to tax robots/profit/wealth etc but unless society crumbles I think the electoral block of 'pensioners' will remain strong.

but they get taxed on it, and their other income, and capital gains tax and will have inheritance tax taken out of their assets that have moist likely already been taxed. and they paid into it. They have most likley been net tax payers.

some things cost tax payers more to administer than is gained by means testing. means testing also excludes those who struggle to fill in foerrms and claim what they are entitled to. claiming back the pension through something that already exists (income tax) is going to be considerably cheaper and not penalise the disabled, confused, dyslexic, poorly who wiould miss out if they had to do their own claim.

Unless they get a disability benefit as that then raises their minimum income guarantee by another £69.70 if they live alone and no-one claims carers allowance for them. If two of a retired couple are disabled and both claiming carers premium, I just worked out they would get topped up to £615 a week with the addition of two severe disability premiums and 2 carers premiums. So they could both be getting state pensions but would be topped up to pension credit worth £615 a week as well as all rent and council tax paid in full if on guaranteed pension credit, plus the disability benefits paid as well. I do understand that some need to pay for care out of this.

Hubby and I both paid NI for 49 years, 16 until 65. I think we deserve our pension. As others have said, we get taxed on extra income over the threshold. We received nothing extra such as furlough payments, grants etc for Covid, interest on our savings have been nothing since 2010 when quantative easing kept interest rates mega low for 12 years. It staggers me when younger people slag off how high the pension is, and in another thread say things like 'There will be no state pension for us when we reach that age' if you don't fight for it there won't be cos the politicians will see they can cut it and you will roll over like sheep and accept it. Believe me, you may be 40 now but you will be 65 before you know it. The time flies by.

The UK spends 4% of its GDP on state pension payments every year. Spain spends 12%, France 13%, Germany 10%.

Many women who retired at 60 looked after elderly relatives - these people now need carers/care homes as women are working to 67. This costs more than paying pensions! Also many would like to provide care for grandchildren but instead young people are paying very high nursery fees.

Well said. It has been impossible to gain any interest on savings for years.

I think AA is less than PIP, it is certainly less than DLA was. My husband is disabled and still gets DLA as he was getting it before he hit retirement age and before PIP but if I became disabled to the same extent as him I would get less because I'm retired. I think the big difference is you can't get a mobility element with AA. No idea why, why would someone who become disabled at 65 need mobility payments and someone who becomes disabled at 66 doesn't?

You don't get AA for being old.

JudgeRindersMinder · Today 21:13
So by the time I’m of state retirement age I’ll have paid NI for 51 years, yes I was working and paying NI. From the age of 16 when I was still at school…THEN I started paying superannuation from the age of 21, you think I shouldn’t get a state pension, although someone who has pissed their life against a wall claimed everything and contributed nothing gets the same basic state pension….you can sod off with that thought!

I’m fed up to the back teeth of paying for everything because I’ve made allegedly sensible decisions through my life and getting nothing back, whilst other people who do nothing but make poor choices have the means to live hand to them on a plate

Absolutely - worked my behind off and paid a ton of pension subs and tax into the system - now someone wants to say I don't need it while those who don't work and therefore don't get a private pension do? 😂😂😂😂

I want the return on what I paid into! I'm happy my tax contributions help those in need - but I'm not impressed that those who choose to stay at home instead of working get the benefits I paid for to help me when I could no longer work!

So many are concerned that their offspring are currently paying for pensioners. Maybe they should consider that as a child free pensioner who worked and paid tax for almost fifty years with no breaks, I and those like me have contributed a substantial amount towards their offspring’s education and healthcare.

I get your point, but I feel that your argument is coming from the wrong direction. It shouldn't be 'why do we have universal pension entitlement' but 'why do we not have a guaranteed income for working age people'. We should aim to level others up, not level pensions down!

Sorry that should have said £615 a week including lowest disability benefits not as well as.

It's very difficult to change.

I have been paying national insurance for the last 40 odd years in the expectation I'll get a state pension to supplement my private pension. If you wanted me to stop expecting that state pension, you should have told me 20 years ago so I could plan.

So what do you do then? Tell the younger folk people they can continue to pay National Insurance contributions but unlike the older folk, they are probably not going to get anything back from the system. That doesn't seem fair either.

SO what they've been doing instead is just pushing it further and further out. So when I started it was 60, now it's 67. This seems fine. I imagine they'll push it out til 70 even.

Ok to put in context.

I've paid in all my working life - as has my DH.

We are not high earners.

However. Once retired, mortgage is paid off, kids have left home (2 major expenses gone) and we have £1600 A MONTH to pay bills (don't have mortgage anymore, don't need all our life insurances, don't need to pay into pension, no student loans to pay off) and food.

£1600 a month makes us a damn sight wealthier than we are now.

I for one am not moaning about it.

Work hard all your life, pay your taxes and NIC for at least 30 years, struggle to buy a house etc and you earn a state pension of around £180pw to cover everything when you retire. Never work, (disabled excepted), contribute nothing towards your own retirement and you end up getting UC, housing benefits, help with council tax, additional help with energy bills. And the OP resents those that have Earned and saved through the government for their pension. Madness!

Thé UK state pension is not the worst in Europe. The equivalent in France is less and to get the full amount you have to have 40 years contributions. Maternity pay is less, as is the length of leave allowed. Also redundancy pay is less. However, holiday pay is more, 1/10th annual salary for a month off.
Also, including occupational pension, ni is well over 20% and in the last 5 years the e/er's rate had been well over 50% and even reached 100%.
An full occupational pension is 75% of salary, but ni continues to be paid. Widows' pensions exist, are discretionary and means-tested. I'm qualified as an HR/payroll manager in France.
The other thing is that the level of French occupational pensions is completely unaffordable. The 'old' 6% and 9% UK schemes like local govt, other njc and firms like Levers etc only worked when interest rates were 15% and pension funds were able to reclaim ACT on their dividend income, something Gordon Brown scrapped which caused the demise of the final salary defined benefit schèmes.

Me too!

But we do have a sort of guaranteed income for working people because if they are on a low income they get topped up by Universal credit although of course the amount paid is based on individual circumstances, rent , kids, illness etc.

Heart breaking - Not! But top bragging 😎

Bottom line is the country has no money, markets are charging high amounts to lend to us & that unfortunately means those with the means are going to have pay more and/or get less.

Pensions make up around 10% of all Govt tax take.

Its no longer affordable to have a universal pension, esp for those pensioners paying higher rate tax, whilst those at the bottom struggle.

You've had plenty from the state, roads, state trained teachers and medical staff, Police solving crime & anti terrorism for starters.

Housing benefit would be payable to pensioners too though and on a more generous basis than to those of working age.

You can't use that against the "a single mum with 2 kids gets less" as she'd also get more if she, or one of her children, has a disability. The extra isn't a pension credit it is a disability benefit and one that is smaller than a younger person would get as far as I know as they can get a mobility element.

Pension credit was a specific benefit, not just a name for a pensioner getting an extra benefit.