The state pension is HOW MUCH???

[BeatieBourke]

Call me stupid (fair) but I've just realised how much the state pension is. £800 odd a month (£185.15pw).

As a non-means tested benefit. For EVERYONE.

I'm generally of the opinion that benefits are too low and too punitive. I usually advocate for universalism. I understand that people have worked their whole lives and paid in, and deserve a retirement. And that having pensioners in poverty does no favours to the economy or other welfare services.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE?? So a widower in rented accommodation with no other income or savings, £800pm. A wealthy 68 year old who's earned a 6 figure salary, has a huge property portfolio and investments coming out of their ears that pay a fortune out in dividends, £800pm. Seriously?

I understand that no party, least of all the Tories (because tory voters as a population are older) will ever go after pensions because it would be unpopular (and older people vote more generally). But in a time when the country is supposedly facing a financial "black hole" and everything else has already been cut to the bone for the last 12 years, why the hell are we paying out state benefits to millionaires?

Maybe if pensions were means tested (with a fairly high and tapering threshold) there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65, and more for people who haven't built up huge assets, can't afford to live, heat their homes or eat a hot meal every day in their later years. I can see the (cynical) political sense in it, but no economic sense whatsoever.

AIBU?

@HiveBee You wouldn't wipe your arse with it?
Send it to me then because it means something to me.
And you expect older people to be honest with friends about poverty, because they wont. My parents needed that fuel payment, they would have pretended to friends they were going to use it to buy something for the grandchildren.

If it helps, OP - I just worked out I've paid around £150,000 in NI so far in my life - and am likely to pay another £150,000 in my remaining career, approx.

I'll happily take that money back/not pay any more and fund my own pension

What's far more likely to happen is that I'll pay all that money in and, by the time I get there, they will have massively moved the goal posts or cancelled the thing altogether.

Agreed. My dad would probably say something about getting Xmas presents for his grandkids, but he's on a very low income. Most people don't share their financial situation with strangers.

My 'gold plated' final salary pension is about £ 3,000 p.a. Rolling in it, I am.

I'm really shocked by this thread. Admittedly I'm approaching pension age, but when I was young and struggling (the early years with low salary and then the early childhood days with no salary), my generation never begrudged older people their state pension. The pension that many of them paid into for 50 years (my dad left school at 14). It was a social contract - and don't forget high earners paid more - it's not a flat rate, if you earn more, you pay more.

I've never claimed benefits other than child benefit (lucky me I know), I didn't get maternity pay, I always had to pay for my own childcare (no free 15 hours for my kids) - but I'm not trying to grab your rights. I'm delighted if life is a little easier.

And let's not forget those people who have paid all their life and die either before or just into retirement - like my best friend who died of cancer six months before he was 66 and able to claim. He didn't get a refund for all those years he paid in.

I don't see any other countries trying to grab or reduce state pensions - what's gone wrong with our society that we're like this? It's not a race to the bottom.

somebody to whom £185 a week would be significant or means anything to. I wouldn’t wipe my arse with it

You must be in possession of an extraordinary amounts of wealth if £185 means nothing to you @HiveBee. I literally know nobody who values money as little as that.

And yet you’re on a bus. Why not a taxis? Perhaps you could spend the £185 a week on Ubers and taxis and try a bit of trickle down economics! …. coz that’s nonsense too

I'm really shocked by this thread.

You shouldn't be this is mumsnet, it's not meant to be a nice place.

Mumsnet is full of bilge and hate.

This reminds me of those children that eat all of their sweets then want to share other kids sweets.
If you have saved into a private pension knowing that you also get a state pension on top means you have taken responsibility for your finances. It doesn't mean you are greedy. It just means you don't blame everyone else for your crap choices.

That's a good point. When I had my children there was no help with childcare. No free hours, no tax credits. Does that balance out what we'll get in pension? Of course not, that's just daft. Things the govt considers important changes all the time. Pensions were the first 'benefit' the govt instigated and they aren't going anywhere. The fact everyone would like us to die before claiming our pensions shows what a nasty little country we've become.

Can we claim back all the tax credit childcare and maternity pay we never had and put that towards our state pension instead?

If you were earning enough money to have paid childcare without the assistance of tax credits I’d find it highly unlikely that you ended up at £100,000 house 🤦‍♀️

@HiveBee There was far less help in the very recent past. A £90,000 house is not that hard to afford. When we got a mortgage we instantly paid less than we had been paying on rent.

The fact everyone would like us to die before claiming our pensions shows what a nasty little country we've become.

Literally nobody has said this. You're just making yourself look stupid setting up a fake argument.

Just looked. Even now if I put down the £5k deposit we put down, my monthly mortgage payments would only be £411. You could not rent a terraced house for that amount privately.

£10,000 a year wouldnt impact my life significantly either way. Thats all i meant. Where as maybe the £10 a week would to someone on an income of £185 in total per week

Nobody in their right mind is aiming this at somebody to whom £185 a week would be significant or means anything to. I wouldn’t wipe my arse with it

You could always donate it to charity, like a lot of people do with their winter fuel allowance. It says a great deal about you that 'wiping your arse with it' is the only use you have for what a lot of people have to live on a week.

That’s not the case in Spain. Hardly anyone there has a private pension. They are not tax efficient and no one likes them.

She didn’t have childcare. None of us did. There wasn’t any. There weren’t tax credits either. Most of us dropped full time work when we had kids and went back when they started school. Some of us did bar work or cleaning in the evenings to bring a bit of extra money in.

You really haven’t got a clue. It was a different world.

@Blossomtoes so you’d (you collectively not personally) like to claim back working benefits that you didnt have because you weren’t working. I understand the lack of opportunity argument perfectly. Its swings and roundabouts

She didn’t have childcare. None of us did. There wasn’t any. There weren’t tax credits either. Most of us dropped full time work when we had kids and went back when they started school. Some of us did bar work or cleaning in the evenings to bring a bit of extra money in.

This is exactly the same today btw. I had to give up work when my maternity leave ended until 2 weeks after my twins started school. (Theyre year 3 now) Nursery fees for them would have cost significantly more than my wages. So really nothing has changed with regards to childcare. I mean maybe there are more nursaries but theyre nit affordable on a normal salary. Just so you know.

Don’t be fucking ridiculous. All we’re doing is pointing out that those working benefits didn’t exist.

I’m sure they mean in equivalent benefits not your future pension

Indeed. I don't receive quite as much as a woman of my age would expect to receive and because of the year in which I was born, I do not in any case receive the new higher weekly rate. I also had to wait around an extra 2.5 years before I became eligible to drawer my state pension because the pension age for women was changed. Mine currently works out to less than £700 a month.