The state pension is HOW MUCH???

[BeatieBourke]

Call me stupid (fair) but I've just realised how much the state pension is. £800 odd a month (£185.15pw).

As a non-means tested benefit. For EVERYONE.

I'm generally of the opinion that benefits are too low and too punitive. I usually advocate for universalism. I understand that people have worked their whole lives and paid in, and deserve a retirement. And that having pensioners in poverty does no favours to the economy or other welfare services.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE?? So a widower in rented accommodation with no other income or savings, £800pm. A wealthy 68 year old who's earned a 6 figure salary, has a huge property portfolio and investments coming out of their ears that pay a fortune out in dividends, £800pm. Seriously?

I understand that no party, least of all the Tories (because tory voters as a population are older) will ever go after pensions because it would be unpopular (and older people vote more generally). But in a time when the country is supposedly facing a financial "black hole" and everything else has already been cut to the bone for the last 12 years, why the hell are we paying out state benefits to millionaires?

Maybe if pensions were means tested (with a fairly high and tapering threshold) there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65, and more for people who haven't built up huge assets, can't afford to live, heat their homes or eat a hot meal every day in their later years. I can see the (cynical) political sense in it, but no economic sense whatsoever.

AIBU?

As I said, the profits of both are not being made in the uK and they are already paying a windfall tax. As per your link though, their profits of £8bn a quarter and any extra tax (as they are already paying tax as we have discussed) would be tiny in comparison to the £101 billion a year required to pay for universal state pensions. So I think you need to work on your maths.

A means-tested state pension is the quickest way to discourage ordinary people from taking out private pensions or saving for their retirement.

Any women significantly affected by this have long retired

Wrong again. You really should check your facts @MsPincher.

www.pensions-expert.com/DC-Auto-enrolment/300-000-women-no-longer-able-to-participate-in-workplace-pensions

It only became worth that amount of money as the area in the last few years of her life suddenly became trendy. She often relied on charity of church and would use food banks.

Those people had paid into that system they have paid 40+ years of taxes and NI.

I'm fully aware of the crisis but your dystopia view of just take it away is also ridiculous and shows complete lack of understanding of how many pensioners live even with those with seemingly big assets.

@MsPincher your also self interested you want to attack pensioners becUse it doesn't affect you, you have said you have made provisions seemingly because you are better than others
If a system costs more to administrate than it saves how does that help reduce budgets
And borrowing

Also @Blossomtoes - why so desperate to avoid wealthy pensioners doing their bit? Why should they get a stream of inflation rated money from the taxpayer while we all suffer? Can’t you see how wrong that is even if it does benefit you?

So I think you need to work on your maths

I think you need to work on yours. Means testing pensions wouldn’t save £110 billion. Most people wouldn’t be affected and the administration for the means test would add costs. The saving would probably be nothing, zilch, nada.

Loads of people have answered this. Apart from other reasons, the means testing will mean that anyone not on benefits will not get the state pension. We are not stupid.

what you say makes no sense.

I would lose out precisely because I made provided extensively for my retirement. If others can’t afford it they would not lose out from means testing. But I would and I’m ok with that because I’m not selfish. Unlike some others on this thread

We do our bit. We’ve paid two previous generations’ pensions and we pay tax. We’ve also paid more tax and NI for decades.

@MsPincher but you wouldn't save 101 billion would you ? You would only save money on those over the bracket and then you would have to work out how much tax that might loose the economy and then also the cost to implement a means tested pension and then you will be lucky if your talking even a small dent
Also half the country would stop private pensions if they knew they would be penalised for saving
Look at all the other ways we can save money and as for the energy firms they have had it good for years and maybe should of been investing a. Little more in renewables etc when the years were good
The tax they pay is a drop in the ocean to them

Just to be clear I will lose out and I will (hopefully) be a pensioner one day. Yet I’m not so selfish that I think giving huge amounts of money to the rich is ok because it suits me. It’s not.

@MsPincher you are selfish your only calling for something because you would be ok
What threshold do you propose ? £10000 , £15000 , £20000
Do plan that the cost if house is also calculated even though they don't have direct access to that money and its not always easy to sell

@MsPincher those rich people and i am def not one of them will of paid more money in over the years than you and i and without some of these rich people there would be no benefits can you not see that
Most if us are bot net contributors

More economical to give to all than to means test. Pensioners are notorious for not claiming additional benefits, at least with a universal pension everyone gets the minimum.

so but again you’re being silly. The energy companies have been investing in renewables for decades
(they get tax credits for this). and of course people stop running and investing in business if all it’s income is taxed.

as I said any currently untaxed income from the energy companies is tiny in comparison to the cost of state pensions. not the whole 101 billion would be saved but a significant amount would. Likely at least half. Another 50bn for the nhs? That would be massive.

I can certainly believe you are not a net contributor, yes. So you would be unlikely to be impacted by any means testing of pensions

It isn’t a benefit. You pay for it in advance during your working life, and if you’re lucky you live long enough to reap the reward.

Half? You’re insane. What would be your threshold for the means test? A fiver?

many pay tax and ni. I certainly pay plenty. But I am not so selfish yo see others suffer while I take from an overburdened system

That’s not true. There is no pot. It’s a benefit paid from current tax

Greed is a terrible thing @Blossomtoes

@MsPincher I could be impacted yes as I do have a work pension as does my dh
We sacrifice here and now for that so yes we could be impacted , but im going fo bed now
No political party will means test pensions any time soon, its political disaster and when waste money in so many other ways its really not the benefit to touch

People don’t get benefits under state pension age if they have other funds. Yet not all of us are on benefits nor would we be.

of course we may have to have employer provision mandated. But it would definitely work out better

That doesn’t tell me where you think the threshold should be. You’ve obviously given this a great deal of thought so what level of other income should preclude people from receiving their state pension? I’m sure you have a figure in mind. Would you have an arbitrary cut off or would you taper?