The state pension is HOW MUCH???

[BeatieBourke]

Call me stupid (fair) but I've just realised how much the state pension is. £800 odd a month (£185.15pw).

As a non-means tested benefit. For EVERYONE.

I'm generally of the opinion that benefits are too low and too punitive. I usually advocate for universalism. I understand that people have worked their whole lives and paid in, and deserve a retirement. And that having pensioners in poverty does no favours to the economy or other welfare services.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE?? So a widower in rented accommodation with no other income or savings, £800pm. A wealthy 68 year old who's earned a 6 figure salary, has a huge property portfolio and investments coming out of their ears that pay a fortune out in dividends, £800pm. Seriously?

I understand that no party, least of all the Tories (because tory voters as a population are older) will ever go after pensions because it would be unpopular (and older people vote more generally). But in a time when the country is supposedly facing a financial "black hole" and everything else has already been cut to the bone for the last 12 years, why the hell are we paying out state benefits to millionaires?

Maybe if pensions were means tested (with a fairly high and tapering threshold) there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65, and more for people who haven't built up huge assets, can't afford to live, heat their homes or eat a hot meal every day in their later years. I can see the (cynical) political sense in it, but no economic sense whatsoever.

AIBU?

I suppose this means the Government is hoping to target the pensioners.

I can remember when pensioners froze to death (under the Conservatives in the 80s) because they couldn't afford to put the heating on. They couldn't afford to feed themselves. I do not want to see those days back, and nor should anyone else.

My father and grandmother died in their 50s, my father having worked all his life and served in the forces. Not everyone who pays all their life will see pensionable age.

Stop begrudging the paltry sums that other people are given. Start complaining about why you are paid so little.
It's not the fault of the pensioners and cutting their funds won't make you any better off.

Since you know so much about her including how much she gets each month, then surely you know that?

Erm no funnily enough.

Seriously?
But they made the same regular contributions to state pensions as those individuals without private pensions.
Of course they should keep their state pension.
These private pensions are not some massive pot of gold in a lot of cases.

As the daughter of a woman who was not in work all her life thanks to childcare responsibilites in the 1970s so missed out on NI contributions so doesn't qualify for quite the full state pension (nor does she qualify for pension credit before anyone suggests it) and didnt have provision when working to pay into a workplace pension as was a single mum, you'd be very surprised how far the state pension DOESN'T stretch. I can't believe that you think 800 quid is a lot to live off each month, get real OP.

£185 a week - take off the 20ish quid Mum doesn't qualify for, take off 30 quid for food /toiletries /household odds and sods, 30 quid for fuel, some for insurance, running a car as living in a poor public transport area, clothing, a pot for household repairs like a broken washing machine, someone to fix a dodgy light fitting, a pot for a couple of clubs / groups for having a social life, some money to travel to visit family, some money for grandchildren's gifts, service charge on a leasehold flat, yeah 800 quid is loads innit. This will be why my mother feels guilty and ashamed that actually some of these things me and my sibling pay for, for example the fridge that couldn't be fixed and she was mopping water off the floor each morning for longer than she admitted - making sure she didn't slip in the process, but folks in their 70s never fall and break bones do they so that's OK.

I'll tell her next time I speak to her that folks think a state pension should be enough to live on. Thanks OP.

He literally paid for the pension he got then. They've changed things since the days of half your final salary if you had forty years, but those people paid in to it as they went along.

The state pension is adequate and no more than that. If folk live to a great age - and often if they don’t - they will need to use savings on care. Savings are gone in no time with 4-5 k charged per month.

If you were actually sensible with money you should be fine either way. I will be worse off without a state pension but I saved for retirement (quite substantially so would be hit by any likely means testing) so I will be fine.

So I can’t in good conscience take money from the state when things are in such dire straits.

I just don’t have the sense of entitlement many do clearly.

I just can’t imagine any other group or circumstances whereby people think they paid in and therefore they are most definitely going to cash out.
I mean imagine being a higher rate tax payer and declaring if I can’t have unemployment benefit to ensure I get my money‘s worth out of all the stamps I’ve paid I’m gonna jack in my job and go on the dole. Im gonna throw myself down the stairs and brake both my legs because I don’t feel like I’ve had enough out of the NHS after all those stumps I’ve paid in it’s just comical.

Civil servants don’t earn £200k. He’s lying if he says he’s on a six figure pension.

You pay in via decree - theft (sorry tax) for at least 30 years in return for a small monthly amount. If my earnings weren't stolen I'd invest myself. Why should those paying in not receive. Oh I know, I'll pay my hard earned money for someone else.

Not every government payout should be means tested. Means testing means leaving it open to being "played" as is the case with every other benefit. Some payouts should be universal to all citizens, regardless of wealth. Talk of the "demon rich" and the "victim poor" is really an oversimplification of the reality of economics.

You realise its actually quite low and we have paid in as such in ni contributions over the years , infact my mum will get a little less as she hasn't paid in enough

But OP’s not saying that @youdbesurprised She’s suggesting it should be means tested so people like you and your mum wouldn’t lose out. And that your kids would potentially have more money in the collective pot to be spent on their education etc so they wouldn’t be as disadvantaged by not having rich family and a head start in life.

i guess she’s surprised that the rich pensioners who already have private pensions and multiple properties etc get extra ££. The over 60s are statistically the wealthiest generation as a whole.

This thread has changed my views on means testing and all sorts of other issues. Really interesting to read with an open mind!

Definitely
My dad started work at 15, worked 3 jobs for a long time, retired at 70. He still has to pay rent which is around £525 a month so his outgoings are fairly high still - council tax, electric, running a car, usual household bills etc

I worked part time from 13 (on a work permit) - 22 then FT from leaving uni

Well it would make people who can afford it, so wouldn't get any, not work all that years and work till pension age so yay for unemployed?

I do not think that her state pension is enough to live on. I don't think she should get less. I think she should get more.

I think many pensioners should recieve more, funded by quite a few pensioners who really don't need state money getting less.

I've suggested a threshold of £750k in assets.

I am not advocating for making poor people poorer. Quite the opposite.

I have lived, very recently, on 800 a month. It's not loads. It's shit. I'm completely with you. I suggest you read all my posts.

I hope your mum is OK.

Plan what? Surely working the additional years allowed them extra time to 'plan' whatever it was they were planning and/or save more.

So-called WASPI women, imo, were bitter about having their social contract amended. We all had our social contract amended in terms of SP. Just as we all had our retirement dreams altered.

I'd like to know what, precisely, made WASPI women so uniquely unable to continue to work until the new SP age, when the rest of us are/were expected to do so?

Also, I refuse to believe these women did not know about the changes, unless they were in a dungeon or a bubble. Information sources were multiple .... media, employers, unions, pensions companies, general chit-chat amongst people .... I actually know women who worked beside me, sat in the same briefings as me and who subsequently claimed to not know about this. 😂

my mother is a similar age and lives on state pension. She worked most of her life despite being a single mum but I she only needed 30 years to qualify for a full state pension. She retired at 60 with full state pension. She did very well out of the system.

if your mum is financially struggling why are you bothered about means testing? She clearly won’t be affected.

First, those who retired before 2016 have the old pension, which is considerably lower.
Second, the wealthy man in your original scenario has paid huge amounts of NI and taxes over his career, and continues to pay taxes on all his income, which in turn pays for the poor widower to have housing benefit and pension credits to improve his situation. The single mum with one child meanwhile has her benefits which qualify her for a pension when she is old. The wealthy man's taxes also give her housing benefit so she is guaranteed a home. She also has the possibility of some work to supplement her benefits, perhaps initially as a childminder alongside her little one.
It is quite a tangled situation, and there may be an argument for change, but removing state pension from people you don't think deserve it is a contentious suggestion and not in the spirit of our welfare state.

Some people really need to look up what and why people get a state pension and look elsewhere to save money
Anyone who has a decent private and a state will then pay tax as well
They also paid their NI contributions to get it
We have a means test for pensions S such as in pension credits , my uncle gets a larger amount that most pensioners but he has paid hardly any tax or ni as mostly never worked or worked cash in hand
Cutting a few pensions won't save the country and will you be happy to oay their NI contributions back of which higher earners would of paid a lot more , they could argue that they should actually be getting a larger amount

They had over 20 years notice. The court case found that pretty conclusively.

Of course we knew about it @Trez1510. You’re completely missing the point. We had the goalposts moved twice. The first time was absolutely fair enough. It was 17 years before my projected pension date and I felt it was fair. The second time was when I thought I was going to retire in two years’ time, suddenly I was going to have to work for another three years with virtually no notice. If I’d had more notice I’d have put extra contributions into my private pension to compensate.

They had over 20 years notice.

Of the first change. Not the second.

Means testing state pensions would save a huge amount of money. State pensions cost the taxpayer over100 bilion a year. It’s enormous. And many who receive it are pretty well off.

ni should be merged into tax though.