The state pension is HOW MUCH???

[BeatieBourke]

Call me stupid (fair) but I've just realised how much the state pension is. £800 odd a month (£185.15pw).

As a non-means tested benefit. For EVERYONE.

I'm generally of the opinion that benefits are too low and too punitive. I usually advocate for universalism. I understand that people have worked their whole lives and paid in, and deserve a retirement. And that having pensioners in poverty does no favours to the economy or other welfare services.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE?? So a widower in rented accommodation with no other income or savings, £800pm. A wealthy 68 year old who's earned a 6 figure salary, has a huge property portfolio and investments coming out of their ears that pay a fortune out in dividends, £800pm. Seriously?

I understand that no party, least of all the Tories (because tory voters as a population are older) will ever go after pensions because it would be unpopular (and older people vote more generally). But in a time when the country is supposedly facing a financial "black hole" and everything else has already been cut to the bone for the last 12 years, why the hell are we paying out state benefits to millionaires?

Maybe if pensions were means tested (with a fairly high and tapering threshold) there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65, and more for people who haven't built up huge assets, can't afford to live, heat their homes or eat a hot meal every day in their later years. I can see the (cynical) political sense in it, but no economic sense whatsoever.

AIBU?

“This lot”, nice! Just bloody wait until you’re old and people like you treat you with contempt. See what you think then.

Ireland for a start. The means tested non contributory pension is nearly 14,000 euro per annum atm.
However, I'm going to have enough credits for a contributory pension.

Let’s rephrase that… why shouldn’t millionaires, who’ve paid way more income tax and National Insurance than minimum wage earners, who may have tended to utilise private health care and private schooling instead of the NHS and State schools thus saving the Government further expenditure, not receive their State pension to which they’re entitled?

Good to hear, but extremely unusual. My father started work at 16 or 17, retired at 65, and is still alive at 88, and in declining health. He has lived longer than the average. Most people had that length of working life and are gone by their mid 80s, often are many years of poor health.

What age did they retire at? Rich people often retire young.40? 50?

You only get full amount if you have never had a private pension or are young. Anyone who paid into a private pension will not get that.

Completely untrue. I have a private pension and a full state pension. Quite obviously I’m not young. You’re getting confused with pension schemes that contracted out.

Exactly….They’ve paid in far more than they’ll receive back via pension.

Pension schemes choose to contract out, I had no say in that. Virtually all employer pensions contracted out.

@MsPincher total costs for mps for 2020-21 was £132.5 million, these are expenses for running offices, travel etc. whilst parliament was mainly remote so they didn’t actually go anywhere, the figures do not include mps salaries or the costs for the House of Lords. That amount alone is roughly the equivalent to 13,500 state pensions for the year, which whilst not a huge amount it does to me raise questions around responsible spending. The point I was originally originally try to make is that why are we all the only ones expected to make cuts to our lifestyles, take pay freezes etc when the ones who are telling us it’s necessary are claiming expenses for turning up to work.

Yes but why do you want to dismantle the state? What is your aim? Your posts make no sense if you are a 'tax the rich' person - your policy will mean there will be less money available because you will dismantle the social contract behind paying NI, so the NI rate will get cut.

Do you seriously imagine that electorally you can encourage people to vote for something that will disadvantage that many people? We live in a democracy.

I have never voted Tory in my life, but what you are suggesting will push moderates to vote for them, IMO, as we will all be pensioners one day (unless dead).

I was genuinely listening and considering my view until you said "bitching".

@BeatieBourke
I take it that when the time comes for you to qualify for your state pension, you will decline it because you think it is too generous?............nope, thought not.

This is simply an excuse to remove state pension from all but the very poorest. If you are already on benefits once your kids have grown up, you will get the state pension. No one else would. You are making sure no one except the rich will save in a pension scheme.

State pension - the only tiny crumb left for the people who actually bother to work.
Nobody should have to scape and grasp in old age.
Leave it be.

I was actually surprised that it doesn't matter what you paid in as long as you paid, you get the same money.

No, this is not true.

universal pensions are basically huge wealth transfers to the elderly and usually the wealthy elderly. Yet they get away with it because they vote

Well it's not the 'elderly' who are to blame for 'youngsters' not turning out to vote is it?

I would vore for anyone who opposed this proposal. Anyone.

My DM got the state pension and also an additional bit of money, which I think was widowers pension. However, I never really understood this as she and my dad were divorced years ago. Is this a thing? Can anyone enlighten me how widowers pension top up works and why it's fair? Esp. if divorced?

DF has a (state funded as ex civil service) 6 figure index linked occupational pension as well as his state pension, attendance allowance, free bus pass, winter fuel allowance etc and doesn't get why I think that pensioners are over treated compared to the rest of us....

55 I believe, not particularly rich, ex teacher, retired due to ill health. Is not in ill health.

They aren’t living the high life but they are most certainly not in the worked hard all my life category, most people arent if they were honest with themselves.

It's tax though. It pays for everything. It's not ring-fenced for your oap or your nhs treatment.
Tax is what the government uses to provide education, roads, the health service, housing, benefits, infrastructure etc.

I think it's taxed differently in other countries.

Ireland for e.g.

You pay

PRSI (pay related social insurance)
and
PAYE (pay as you earn)

Everyone pays PRSI mainly
You work out how much PRSI you will pay in four steps. First, calculate one-sixth of your earnings over €352.01. Then subtract this from the maximum credit of €12 to get your PRSI credit. Then calculate the basic PRSI charge at 4% of your earnings.3 Oct 2022

PAYE is taxed at different levels with those earning least, paying none and those earning most, paying more.

I think that people here are not paying much income tax.

@AnonyMouseToday never heard of divorced people getting it.
Widowers pension is for people who lose their partner before the state pension age. It gives a one-off payment to help with funeral costs and a small monthly payment for a year. It used to be more generous but now is very time limited.

Ok, thanks. Maybe I got confused!

No he hasn’t. No civil servant is getting a £100k pension. Not even the most bloated mandarin.

I don't get why you imagine that all other pensioners are in the same exceptional position as your DF.