Terrible breastfeeding advice threads - AIBU to think MN needs to do more to reduce harm

[Manamala]

Breastfeeding misinformation is so rampant on here - anecdotal evidence and inappropriate advice which can be really harmful to a BF journey is dished out willy nilly.

On DV and MH threads Mumsnet HQ will post offfical links etc. recommending professional support, shouldn't they do this on BF threads?

Mumsnet is a trusted source of information for so many new mums and there are such serious health implications from bad advice.

And I've lost track of the number of posts I've read on here from new mums who 'don't want to cosleep' but talk about dozing off with their baby in their arms on sofas or while sitting up in bed.

UNICEF actually mention this as something for health visitors to be aware of, because it's a real risk.

^The messages can seem complex, controversial and at odds with the reality of parents’ lives. You may also fear getting it wrong, as this could result in the loss of a baby’s life and/or serious consequences for your career. It can, therefore, feel safest to either simply tell all parents to never co- sleep or just to say nothing at all.
Unfortunately, this approach is not safe. It can increase the risks to babies because:
■ Young babies wake frequently at night and need to be fed and cared for somewhere. In most homes this will be in bed or on a sofa or armchair, simply because there is no other comfortable place. Parents can easily choose the more dangerous sofa over the less dangerous bed because they are trying to follow advice to never bed-share.
■ Mothers can try and sit up rather than lay in bed to breastfeed in order to stop themselves falling asleep. As most babies breastfeed frequently, mothers risk falling asleep in a more dangerous position than if they had been lying down. Many abandon breastfeeding altogether as they are so exhausted, thereby depriving themselves and^ ^their baby of all the benefits that breastfeeding brings.
■ Babies thrive on closeness and comfort. Many parents end up co-sleeping, whether they intended to or not, as^ ^it settles their baby and so enables everyone to sleep.
■
While some young babies settle easily in a cot or Moses basket between feeds, others do not. Some parents who choose not to co-sleep may decide to encourage their baby to learn to sleep independently using the controlled crying method, which is not recommended. This approach can be distressing for the parents and their baby, be detrimental to the baby’s growth and development and can undermine breastfeeding.^

Sorry that formatting is rotten, but hopefully it's legible.

But she’d doubled her birth weight from 4.5lb - yes some newborns weigh 9-10lb but plenty don’t! I was proud to have got her to that point. Yes she did gain weight more quickly once on solids, then plateaued again.

When they suddenly gain after starting solids it’s quite clear the milk was inadequate or not enough before isn’t it?

I would assume a constitutionally small baby would stay small even after weaning onto solids.

If Co sleeping whilst following “safe 7” was actually safe then there would be no loss parents who lose their babies in this way

As a statement about anything, this is clearly absurd. Plenty of things in life that are "safe" still result in deaths, for example a baby sleeping in a cot.
I'm not particularly a co sleeping advocate, but to say "if X was really safe, there would never be any deaths" is illogical whatever the topic.

I think part of the problem is that there are some who don't understand that cluster feeding isn't about filling a tummy. If you look at breastfeeding the same as giving them formula and it's just about feeding them then it probably would look like that.

It isn't though. 🙄

From what I understood at the time it’s not that simple. Like I said, I took careful advice from doctors and HVs the whole way through and did give top ups - which didn’t increase the weight gain. It’s more complex than just trying to get them to gain more weight quickly sometimes.

So much bf misinformation. I would prefer MNHQ to split the topic so bf is on its own and not with ff.

I would like to see what you’d say to a loss parent who has lost a baby whilst Co sleeping, a healthy, robust baby and whilst they were following the “safe 7”.

Nice attempt at guilt tripping @Notsoglamanymore 👍

I'd say the exact same I just said to you. There's no way to prove the cot caused the death.

What would you say to them - that they're to blame?

To prove co-sleeping not cot*

Not cluster feeding as in, more feeds.

But a newborn feeding for 3+ hours is completely biologically unproductive - they’re spending more energy than they’re taking in by suckling.

I never experienced cluster feeding, and had oversupply, so suspect it’s just a case of baby trying and trying but not getting enough milk.

I would like to see what you’d say to a loss parent who has lost a baby whilst Co sleeping, a healthy, robust baby and whilst they were following the “safe 7”.

What a thing to say . Do you have no critical thinking skills?

BF is such a different experience in every woman. Censorship won't help.

@Notsoglamanymore Because I do evidence based research. There is plenty of peer reviewed evidence out there within easy reach if you care to look for it.

Have you come across cosleeping.nd.edu?

it is one of few sources of peer reviewed evidence from a lab dedicated to studying safe bedsharing - which along with exclusive breastfeeding is a protective factor against SIDS

Thank you @Bert2e yes I do, and you are so totally right. I try to avoid wading into this stuff for my own sanity. Thank you for this, I will wade out now!! Solidarity!

Those disclaimers like on the mh board are mainly there to protect MN in the event that somebody might take legal action against them. The same would be true for bf.
If MN really wanted to ensure that people who are unfit or unable to use their own judgment are protected from taking bad advice from anonymous strangers, they would have to take down the entire website.
I think most people understand the nature of an online public forum and are unlikely to take practical advice from on here if it goes against medical advice or is contradictory to official guidelines or whatever.

Well couch cosleeping isn’t safe but trusted agencies like UNICEF, Durham baby research into infant sleep (used to be called ISIS), lullaby trust and NHS says safe cosleeping should be taught to all mothers to avoid accidental cosleeping. Unless they have info from another trusted authority which contradicts this?

@40andfit

There's a difference between advising women on the risks of dangerous bed sharing practices and avoiding accidental co sleeping and advising bed sharing as a beneficial practice that is always safe.

It's not.

The safest place for a baby is its own bare sleep space

@JubileeTrifle - sorry to hear about this. My experience, whilst of a different nature, was similar in that many breastfeeding "experts" told me something that turned out to be completely untrue.

On this subject, Kellymom states, "As long as baby is allowed to nurse on cue, your milk supply will accommodate baby's needs." It's simply not true, and poor advice leaves women who have often been through a traumatic and life-changing experience feeling like a failure right from the start.

@TheOrigRights ; @Bert2e @ImEasyLikeSundayMorning - hope this explains a little of my distrust for Kellymom and similar sites. Nothing to do with it being American!

Breastfeeding isn’t an exact science. Sometimes there’s no rhyme or reason as to why it isn’t working out, it just doesn’t. But I feel women will spend weeks or months persisting in their quest for ‘answers’ before eventually admitting defeat. It isn’t fair to leave a baby hungry for that long.

@Sistanotcista If that quote is from the section on not pumping enough milk that's not the full quote!

Noone with any proper training will suggest that babies areleft hungry, just that families need properly trained support to reach their breastfeeding roles.

Noone with any proper training will suggest that babies areleft hungry, just that families need properly trained support to reach their breastfeeding roles.

But who do you trust? Everyone, even ‘experts’ have different fucking opinions.

All I thank god for was that I grew up around breastfeeding and saw how it looked when it was working so I could be confident when I knew it wasn’t.

I was repeatedly told ‘of course you’ll make enough milk, just keep going’ even though it was obviously not true.

The only time I heard this was from our NCT leader! I looked into it and the research did look along those lines too.