yes I was but how the hell do people cope with this?! (ASD/ADHD DS(12))

[TillyTrauma]

I need help.

DS (12) is being assessed for ASD/ADHD. Private Ed Pysch currently working on the report. My Plan Plus in place. Ds is 'gifted' level of intelligence which adds its own quirks to the situation.

DS is hugely violent when triggered, DH and I are both covered in bruises regularly. It takes both of us to restrain/remove DS if we need to. 2 younger siblings are scared of him. He is routinely verbally abusive. DS refuses to do any chores/tasks/personal hygiene requirements.

DS has not showered in over 3 weeks. He stinks. He wont let me in his room to collect laundry and wont bring it down so his clothes all stink. Last night we insisted he had to shower (he had been hiking so was muddy, sweaty and had got wet from the rain). He refused and kicked off. DH and I manhandled him into the wet room. He screams and attacks us. then refuses to get in the shower. So we turn the shower on and spray him with it, fully clothed, to at least get some of the smell, dirt off him. Understandably he went nuclear, DH and I are battered and bruised. We are at the end of our ability to cope.

I'm waiting on our family support worker to call me. I have emails in to the school senco and head of year. I have a GP callback later to up my medication as right now i want to get on a bus/train/plane and never come back.

How the hell can we live like this? i keep telling myself that once we get a dx we can hopefully get him medicated to help but that could be months away. how the hell do we do this? how does our family survive this?

So yes, i know i was BU to blast him with the shower but what else was i supposed to do?! (straw that broke the camels back)

Is anyone else out there dealing with a child with these issues? how in the hell do we do this?

I'm so broken.

try not to think of pda interms of average parenting- don’t apologise for the shower situation and stop feeling guilty, you had his best interests at heart, you didn’t hurt him, he is angry - now move on!

try not to think of pda in terms of normal trust/boundaries/give and take in a teen relationship. It is the demand he is avoiding - not necessarily the task (though could be both if sensory issue like showering).
so - entering room and tidying without consent/warning may not have the same reaction that it would engender in a nt teen! Although it might- but I would do it, personally, and just ignore verbal reactions when home from school. Don’t however attempt to build into it some kind of transaction (ie ‘I tidied, you keep it tidy’- just accept you have done it and move on)
Strategies that helped -
ignoring- he doesn’t need to shower, or wash, or not smell- save your energy for the mouldy plates which need to go!
association (ie-tidy room whilst at school, fave dinner immediately comes in, fave films all eve, no demands, no questions, etc)
backwards chaining (ie- start with very low level demand- putting shower on for someone else, leaving room, when comfortable and routine move onto putting shower on and hanging up towels whilst in the room, etc) takes AGES - the key is to never move onto a stage where he is uncomfortable, so they are very tiny baby steps. Primary teachers often use!

I really feel for you, OP; I was the younger child of a boy like this.

However, I also go swimming - please don't take him swimming if he's filthy. It's not fair on anyone else in the pool.

The problem is he doesn't want you in there or to do it but he doesn't have the executive function/organisational skills to do it himself when there are 100 other things he'd rather do in there including decompress and pretend the world outside doesn't exist.

I wonder if he could just pass the things you want out the door? DS with ASD would probably cope better with that. Or even better ask him to pile all dirty clothes and dirty dishes outside the door. Just don't ask him to do this 'immediately' or to do it as soon as he gets back from school. Tell him on a weekend morning at breakfast that you need him to just put all dirty clothes and dirty dishes outside his bedroom door before lunch time. Give him a reminder if he hasn't done it after an hour and ask if he'd rather you stand outside and pass them to you.

I think manhandling him into the shower like that was just a terrible idea, it's not going to stop him smelling to shove him under fully clothed and he'll jsut resent you so much - although I understand how you get to that point. You need to start trying to see things from his point of view and understanding where he is coming from.

So why when you ask does he say he doesn't want to shower? It sounds like it might not be the shower per se but the transition as he stays in there for a while - and the fact that there are 100 other things he'd rather do than shower which to him is pointless because he's not bothered if he smells. Swimming is a possibility, mine much.much prefers baths to showers as he can read while he's in there so is less 'pointless' and the other thing we have is deodorant that lasts several days - Trust from Boots was recommended on here and has been a game changer. I would talk to him about a 'reasonable' amount of showers a week in conjunction with the deodorant and see what compromise you can come up with ie he showers on a Sunday and Wednesday at an agreed time that suits him best and then he puts the deodorant on after to keep him going till the next time.

But OP this is ticking every box for ASD and getting a diagnosis will not change anything. You cannot medicate away ASD. There is medication for ADHD but this is not sounding at all like ADHD. Please don't rely on a diagnosis to change him into what you want. What needs to change completely is your handling of this, your understanding of what is going on for him, your respect for him and the way he sees the world. Emotionally he is likely to be younger than his actual years and you need to take that into account. Remember if the worst thing people did in this world was smell a bit stinky then the world wouldn't be the terrible place it currently is.

You have to work with him and try to find compromises that you can both cope with. But if you want someone to work with you then you need to show them respect and empathy, if he feels you don't like him and don't understand him then it's going to be very hard to persuade him to work with you.

@TillyTrauma
So sorry you are suffering this..
Schoolfriend had an Autistic older brother who was huge and strong and had terrifying aggressive outbursts ( We were kids though) ( Think heavy dining table being flipped over) he went to a boarding school in the end as uncontrollable moods were actively dangerous.

Another Mum was seriously assaulted by her Autistic son- He too had to go into residential care when he became too “Big” to physically manage.
She is just not able to deflect the outbursts and a serious incident where she was hurt made the residential care the only safe option for everyone.

It’s incredibly frightening and soul destroying for parents who love their children, but are physically hurt by them.

*the routine of have showers at the same time and same days every week might also be helpful.
The other thing I forgot to add was please read up everything you can on supporting kids with ASD. Personally I doubt it's PDA if he's doing well at school because he'd be avoiding doing anything he was asked there too as the anxiety would be too great. Seeing washing and tidying as pointless is typical ASD IMO not on it's own indicative of PDA.

Veggie your views are really ableist and insulting . This is like telling a wheelchair user to just such it up that there's steps.

Please go elsewhere with your vile views and not to parents who are already exhausted and trying their best with their children's disabilities.

Why do you think it is acceptable to discriminate against some disabilities?

Getting a diagnosis isn’t straightforward, and no one is diagnosed unless they meet the criteria.

The rise in the incidence of ND conditions is multifaceted, and regardless of what you believe it is in part due to better assessments and diagnosis, especially among girls and women.

WTF I have an ASD son who is 21 now and would never dream of hitting me as I would go nuclear. Who took him hiking if fact who did anything for him. If he showers and performs basic hygiene tasks he can be a functional part of the family. You want let him get what he wants by violence at 12 can he really overpower your DH.

It really is. Please get off this thread.

Reported.

I havent got time to read the full thread, but in case noone else has mentioned it. Look up Yvonne Newbold (Newbold Hope) who is focused on how to deal with violent and challenging behaviour. She has a book and lots of info on her website and runs courses.

Its really helpful.

@Veggieburgers your views are ableist.

I disagree with this. ASD/PDA/whatever diagnosis he may or may not get, he deserves an apology. Obviously every child is different, the OP will be the one who knows best what will help/hinder him, but a nd does not necessarily he doesn't understand what is happening, just that he can't express his feelings in a way that is generally understood/deemed acceptable. He has every right to be treated with the same basic courtesy you or I would expect. And don't disregard any reaction he does show.

You are insane. This is not a child behaving badly and if you knew anything whatsoever about ASD you would know this is ticking all the boxes. This is not poor parenting or a parent that hasn't bothered to wash their child - they're trying to shove him in fully clothed they're so desperate FGS.

Really you should keep your nonsense to yourself, do you know how long it takes to get a diagnosis and how hard it can be? I went to school with a number of kids I now recognise as having autism, in the 70's and 80's they were just called weird and had no friends. There were also kids made to write with the 'right' hand, told they were clumsy and told they weren't very bright because they couldn't read well. Dyslexia and dyspaxia also weren't big then either - or being left handed. But yeah we should go back to those times.

If only you'd smacked your son when he was young OP, that would have learned him.

I'd also post in the special needs area on here for advice as there are so many parents who've been through the same thing. Sometimes AIBU attracts idiots.

And I’m appalled by your posts.

If a wheelchair user struggles to walk up steps due to their disability and a ND child struggles tidying his room or showering or anything else due to their disability they are the same. Both examples are where a disabled person struggles to do something because of their disability.

Just because you as someone with ignorant views doesn’t see that doesn’t mean it’s not actually the case.

Please just report ignorant, ableist, clearly thick-as-mince posters instead of engaging.

We’re not there yet OP; DS is only 11 and small for age, but already increasingly resistant to showering. He’s not violent, but I’m not ignorant enough to think that’s down to anything but luck. Some really good suggestions here though.

This won't work with a child with autism and PDA.

It's a demand.

Maybe it is not such a disaster OP?

With low-demand parenting, the issue is often that the child simply does not want to do things that are necessary and good for them (eg washing). Yes there are often valid sensory reasons, nevertheless they still need to find a way to cope for their own health. Some children understand and accept this and other just don’t.

By spraying him with the shower you demonstrated that being filthy is simply not an option. The choice not to wash is not on the table. You all had a horrible, even traumatic evening, however, you did demonstrate that washing is non-negotiable.

How and when to wash, however, can be up for discussion.

Perhaps your son will now be more prepared to consider less traumatic (albeit unpleasant for him) methods of washing?

But OP this is ticking every box for ASD and getting a diagnosis will not change anything. You cannot medicate away ASD

It's correct that ASD can't be medicated but if there is co-morbid anxiety then Sertraline or similar can really help.

My ASD/ PDA son found it really helpful when in a similar situation to OP.

As to those saying it's idle parenting. Just fuck off. You have no idea.

veggie - your opinion is one of blissful ignorance. my children were all raised with firm boundaries and reward/consequence parenting. my younger ones respond beautifully to this method, they are happy, helpful and unfailing kind. DS is wired differently. SS have actually said that there is no issue with my parenting so, in true MN style - ODFOD.

im hoping the report/dx give clarity on what we are dealing with so we can support him the right way. he has traits of ASD, ADHD, PDA all inter mixed - some traits show up in more than one condition and he is also gifted which causes some of the same traits too.

I dont intend to 'medicate away' his condition but as a MH medication user myself i appreciate the benefits from medications that can help with some of his sympytons - the violence, the anxiety for example. I am fully aware that this is the way DS is wired but that will not stop me doing all i can to make his life easier and to bring in any and all aids that might help him cope and function.

The task is probably overwhelming. ND kids can need a lot more instruction, it's breaking it down into manageable steps and describing those steps clearly so he doesn't have to think how to do it or what's next. If he's really overwhelmed which it sounds like he may need very specific instructions, so rather than using general terms like instead of, 'you need to bring out 5 items of clothing might need to specifically say 5 shirts.' Choice can be very anxiety provoking.

Above advice probably isn't helpful if he has PDA though. There's a group on Facebook called 'the B Team' which is all about Ross Greene's explosive child and low demand parenting, might be worth a look. There are also various support groups for parents of ND children on Facebook where you can talk to others who will be going through or gone through things very similar to what's going on for your DS.

My DC are Autistic, my middle DC has gone through violent periods like this, and though younger he's very strong for his age. I can't restrain him anymore and I actually found the best way to end the meltdown and keep us all safe is to leave the room. His siblings and I go into a bedroom, door opens inward so I can sit against it to hold it closed. He smashes into the door for a while, but calms a lot faster without any other people around. Otherwise he keeps attacking whoever's nearby and the more he hits the more disregulated he gets

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, but have read all your posts op. Hope I'm not suggesting things that have already been suggested. Ds has asd and severe anxiety, at his worse he didn't wash for 6 months.
I really struggle with him not washing, so it became a battle between us and I had to change tac.
Now Ds has two set times of the week that he has to wash, mid week and weekends, he can pick the days, but twice a week is the minimum. However how he washes is up to him. We have a dry shampoo and a foam- no need to rinse off body wash that he can use when sensory wise he just can't cope with the shower/bath. Sensory wise, it's the transition for him, changing from warm to cold to warm again, rather than actually being under water. Once he is in, he will stay in for ages.
Keeping his room tidy, I'm lucky that atm he doesn't mind me going in or moving things. When his anxiety is bad he does. When it's like that, swaps at the door seem to work best. "I've got a hot chocolate here for you, can you pass me last night's plates and then you'll have space for it" type thing.
He does also respond to incentives and I'm lucky he has a hobby he loves, which involves a trading card game. So he gets a new pack, sits on his bed and tells me each one he has got, whilst I quickly collect up his washing. As long as the focus is on the cards, he can cope with me doing a job in there as well.
When he is doing well, he knows he has to bring his plates down and put his washing in a pile, but that's only a recent development and he is a few years older than your ds.
Good luck, it's so exhausting, both physically and mentally isn't it.

This and sometimes as a last resort VCB is medicated with risperidone or similar.