To think it's about time everyone was more frugal with energy.

[malificent7]

I am very concerned about the effect the energy crisis will have on the poorest and on the most vulnerable. I am hoping that schools and hospitals can stay warm.
However, i think it's good that everyone is turning stuff off and not putting the heating on because it's a bit chilly.

I know this will change if it gets really cold. If we are experiencing global warming we might not need so much heating. Clutching at straws here and trying to stay positive people!

When I went out yesterday (very mild in London) shops had doors open and heat on, and they'll be doing this all winter, even when it gets cold. Why not start on encouraging them to close the doors and turn the heat down? why is it always households that have to cut back and be frugal?

This is correct I believe?

I remember someone on the news, some environmentalist/scientist saying that 'once everyone in China has a fridge there is no hope'

This is the problem but why shouldn't everyone on the planet hope for the same standard of living as those in the western world?

I’m hoping that shops and other public buildings stop heating to such excessive levels you have to leave before you can finish your shop. The past few days have been lovely warm weather, however the shops had the heating on so high. We visited a museum and had to leave the radiators were on so high you couldn’t touch them.

Ive always wondered why shops do this and hinder their sales.

We're quite frugal with our energy but if you think what we, as domestic energy users on a little island, can make a huge difference to the environment, then I think you're dreaming.
Yes, we can save a few £'s personally, and yes we can contribute to a global and industrial change but not in isolation.

Let's face it, no one is going to minimise their usage of energy unless we tax the hell out of it. Everyone has a reason why they need an SUV (because its safer) or jet travel holidays (because some celeb does it so why shouldn't I).

So that's the choice we have, either pay a lot more for stuff that is polluting/causes global warming, or destroy the planet in 50-100 years time.

The window for choosing is fast diminishing.

Putting the odd yogurt pot in the recycling and thinking you are actually doing any good is fantasy.

What's going to happen to disabled people who need to keep warm if you're taxing the hell out of energy use?

There was a school in Leasowe, built in the 60s from memory, that had no heating but must have had solar power. Have often wondered why more public buildings built since the massive reorganisation of local govt in the 70s didn't follow the same aporoach. Would've saved millions.

We've been very, very lucky though that for the majority of the country October has been mild so far.
The milder autumns of the past few years are because of climate change. It’s not luck; it’s man-made and it’s a problem.

OP, while I agree households should think about their energy consumption – you read stuff on here about “well, my house my business” as if their carbon footprint is confined to their house and doesn’t affect us all – the best things to do are cut our consumption of stuff: all the shopping of new things that are made with energy, use energy to deliver, use energy to dispose of. And when we’re eventually given the chance to vote, vote out the Tories who couldn’t give a shit.

@malificent7

If you really want to be frugal and it concerns you so much, then turn of your devices and get off MN. Practice what you preach, it is really necessary for you to be wasting energy posting on here.

www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/do-i-emit-co2-when-i-surf-the-internet/69/

"How much energy is required for...

...an email?
A one-megabyte email (= 1 MB) during its total life cycle emits 20 g of CO2 , i.e. the equivalent of an old 60 W lamp lit for 25 min. Twenty emails a day per user over one year, create the same CO2 emissions as a car travelling 1000 km.

...a data centre?
A single router consumes 10,000 watts (10 kW). A very large data centre comes close to 100 million watts (100 MW), or one-tenth of the output of a thermal power station. In fact, on top of the consumption required to run the servers, the electronic circuits must be cooled using air conditioning.

... a web search?
The search for a web address represents 3.4 Wh (0.8 g CO2 equivalent). But the total rises to 10 g after an internet search producing five results.If a web user makes an average of 2.6 web searches per day, this user can be extrapolated to be emitting 9.9 kg of CO2 equivalent per year.

... a year browsing the web?
When browsing the web, an average internet user yearly needs about 365 kWh electricity and 2,900 litres of water, which corresponds to the CO2 that is emitted when you travel a good 1,400 km by car."

Obviously every little helps, but really what should be happening rather than/ in addition to the short term handouts this winter is a big push towards energy efficiency and grants/ loans etc to help with that, massively increasing the feed-in payments for solar etc.

That would require some joined-up thinking from the government however.

I was brought up to be frugal because my parents weren't well off. Its an ingrained habit. I don't need lecturing on it now after years of "it's like Blackpool Illuminations in here".

Two choices :

The government gives everyone an energy allowance, much like we have a personal tax allowance.

The government subsidises them.

I agree that some people use was more than their fair share of natural resources. But there are also lots of people who already use less than their fair share because they have no money. Or, like me, find that old habits relating to being poor are very difficult to shift.

I think a good start would have been to cap the number of units of gas / electric that you can get at the (government subsidised) discounted cost.

I’m also a fan of having an “environment impact allowance”. If you’re already low impact (which most poorer people are) you’d have spare allowance you could choose to sell. Probably impossible to implement though!

I think you are right on both counts.

It's a good idea, but would be very expensive to implement.

Far easier just to tax everything heavily and then provide energy benefits for people to claim.

Whilst definitely we need to do our bit I think the biggest job is to convince China, India, Russia and the USA to do anything- we are a drop in the global environmental disaster.

We haven't had a dryer for over ten years and we haven't had the heating on since the first week in March. We are rural, so our radiators and water are heated by heating oil. You have to buy 500 litres or more or they won't deliver. The last time we bought 500 litres it was £320, the time before it was £240. We've had to order it again and it's over £500! We have three children with additional needs and they have to have baths, so most of our heating oil goes towards heating water and the water is on a meter too. Our electric has jumped (from when we moved here in 2016) up from £20 a week being enough to still have some credit remaining, to £60 last week and it's all gone. We live between our kitchen and living room and the kids have no electronic devices in their room. They are home educated, so they do use their laptops a couple of times a week, but we mostly use pens and paper. We've had so many power cuts lately. Unfortunately, the rich are making the decisions, without having to worry if they make a mistake. If the sea level rises, they can just buy a yacht!

This is true, but to me you have to lead by example.

It's not realistic to expect everyone else to do something while we do nothing.

The smaller countries all add up to one big country. We all have to make our contributions.

Absolutely agree 👍

Totally agree. The isolationist “this country and that country” thinking is part of the problem, as if we’re not all interconnected on the global stage, from trade to food to politics to individuals buying goods – and the crisis is going to affect everyone sooner or later, at which point blaming China and not the UK isn’t going to help.

Unpopular, but I'll be honest. I'm from the US and live here now, but spent some time in med school in the UK.

Nothing you do on a personal level in the UK is going to impact the environment in any meaningful way.

I've had my air con on since April. All day every day. We have central air in half of the house, and 2 window units in the other half. When I turn it off, the heating will go on for large chunks of the day. DH and baby DS both home most of the day on most days.

This isn't a 'just me' thing. This is everyone I know in the Mid South.

When we go to the grocery store, we don't walk. Even though the store in 10 minutes walk away, the area isn't built for pedestrians. There's no walkway.

Almost no one walks anywhere. Public transport is almost non existent, and used by the poorest of the poor, or some of the worst people only. As a woman I would never feel safe on a bus.

Plastic bags for shopping are everywhere and abused so heavily. Baggers regularly add 1 item per bag.

And this is before I talk about how much industry uses and wastes.

I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying if you're uncomfortable at home 'for the environment' don't be. The US absolutely has it covered in ruining everything and that's not going to change. And I don't even think we're the worst country.

Here in the west country its 20 degrees today, the heating is set to come on at a certain level of coldness and it hasn't so far.
I'm really concerned about global warming, I remember in the 60's to 90's there was always a first frost in October, it was cold, sometimes it snowed. Now it's like summer.
What the hell is going on? I'm still going around in teashirts and flip flops.
Wondering what the rest of the country is like.

If it's such a big issue then they should just stop being manufactured. Just like plastic straws.

Just to confirm my point was not to blame another country or countries, but to say that it needs to be a global effort, one that us marred by geopolitical tensions, we need the big countries to pull with us, that is no easy task.

Well my gas bill last month was £25,this months it’s £80,had the heating on for half an hour in the morning!..quite simply people won’t be able to afford to heat their homes anyway.

The standing charge is ridiculous. They should cap that.