To think that our homes and our children's future's are next?

[WorrieaboutFIL]

Just watched an economist explain that the last 10 years have seen a massive upwards transfer of wealth means that even more assets will be stripped from working and middle class people (basically anyone who needs a mortgage is in the firing line) because house values will stay high but so will rates. I feel we are sleep walking into serfdom and a new feudalism is emerging. Horrifying.

This is exactly what the Tories want and always have wanted. Yet people still vote for them.

www.forbes.com/sites/forbescoachescouncil/2021/07/15/how-to-overcome-the-hourglass-economy/

Society and macroeconomics have resembled a funhouse mirror in the last year. By some barometers, such as the stock market, 2020 and 2021 could be described as having a strong and robust economy. In other ways, for those affected by layoffs and business shutdowns, it has been devastating.

Whatever your perspective, there’s no doubt that the economy has been challenging, and as the rich get richer, the middle class gets squeezed. I say we are living in an hourglass economy, in which there are growing upper and lower classes but the middle class is getting smaller. This hourglass economy has a profound impact on not only your current career but the future of work for you and your children. With more economic power in fewer hands, the hourglass economy favors career ownership and investment over the traditional paths of the middle class.

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/10/23/hourglass-economy-threat-workers-squeezed-middle/

The rate at which technology is advancing is having a deep impact on the world of work.

Whether through the increased need for new skills, in which supply cannot keep pace with demand, or through automation, which is leaving many workers with skills that are no longer relevant – the implications for businesses and workers are far-reaching.

One phenomenon that we have seen for several years now is the disappearance of mid-skilled jobs, which is leading to a hollowing out of the labour market and the creation of a so-called "hourglass" economy.

This has seen more high- and low-skill roles being created than mid-skill, and research shows this happening at an alarming rate.

Well part of the Brexit fantasy is turning the SE into Singapore on Thames, that is for sure.

The disappearance of a comfortable MC lifestyle is something you see in the US also.

While I sort of agree with the thrust of your thinking, you clearly don’t know what feudalism is / was.

so you still don't know what feudalism was.
No need to panic about 50-yr mortgages. Property ownership is not a social essential; look at successful European countries where renting is the common and preferred model .

I don't know why you are so obsessed with the term feudalism. It even states here that its definition is subject to debate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism

I'm using the term feudalism as an example of a system of extreme inequality and lack of (democratic) ways to change the system, which is what we are ebbing towards.

Oh right, and who is going to ensure a successful system of property renting is put in place in the UK? Not happening any time soon is it? You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that's on the horizon.

The current reality is £1000+ rents and even higher mortgages.

Property ownership is not a social essential; look at successful European countries where renting is the common and preferred model .

For who? Because if you own a property, or have a mortgage that you've been managing comfortably, you're talking out of your arse.

I feel we are sleep walking into serfdom and a new feudalism is emerging.

This spoils your whole OP to the point I have to vote YABU.
High levels of income and wealth inequality are not defining elements of serfdom or feudalism.

capitalism and neoliberalism is not a conspiracy it's a reality, and this is where it is leading us.

This is also a problematic as capitalism has actually massively reduced income and wealth inequality- in every country worldwide. It has never failed to have this effect on societies. Its neoliberalism that is bad for economies and equality, but we don’t actually have a neoliberalist country or government? Our current economic and inequality woes are neither caused by capitalism nor neoliberalism.

How do you classify the likely future where we have 50 year mortgages and the majority of our income is spent just existing? With no upward mobility, a hollowed out middle class and wealth and assets continuously flowing upwards to a smaller pool of the super rich?

SNAFU - Situation Normal All Fucked Up. It’s the present, not the future as a pp pointed out.

Even in your link it says there is a classic definition of feudalism and a broad definition of feudalism and it is these two definitions which are the subject of debate.

No where is there any hint of the imaginative definition you have seemingly plucked out of thin air…

Ok well if you disagree with the economist that I cited, that was the main focus of why I was posting. He's very credible. I'd rather you engaged with that rather than mark down my OP like a teacher with a red pen.

The fundamental issue is inequality and the transfer of wealth.

Forget I mentioned feudalism then! Massive inequality is the issue FFS!

@WorrieaboutFIL
So halfway through the video and not yet done with Gary Stevensom’s life story but it’s quite clear he is not an economist. He studied banking at LSE and then got a job as a trader and then resigned to be an activist/campaigner against inequality. Watching the rest now.

If only people has voted for Corbyn. Instead, the media fooled people, lied, and here we are. I feel very despairing. My poor children. Both are young, but talk of leaving the UK. I'd support them doing so.

I don't know why people aren't angrier. People are so compliant, as covid rule following showed, that we'll just lie back as it all happens.

So. Where to begin. Broadly I agree with him. He may not be a professional economist, but he is clearly literate in economics. It’s too bad he’s not as well versed in sociology and political systems but hey, he definitely knew his stuff.

Yes inequality is worsening, but it’s more of the same as this has been the trend since the 2008 crash.

Yes, the system artificially depresses wage growth, while encouraging inflation of property so we (and other countries as well) have a massive issue with the gap between wages and house prices. This is causing huge levels of personal debt. Basically either house prices need to drop or stagnate while wages need to increase to close this gap.

Yes the moderate to super rich can live off the interest/earnings of their assets so their wealth grows faster than they spend it (if they’re sensible and most are)- so over time this does siphon off wealth from lower classes upwards. This has been true forever.

Yes wealth needs to be taxed and I was quite pleased to hear he also thinks the argument “but if you tax wealth, the rich will just emigrate” is a naff argument because their wealth isn’t a bank balance but it’s tied up in land, businesses and properties that are all here and have to stay here, so can still be taxed even if they “flee” to the Cayman Islands.

100% agree with him on crypto. Very refreshing because I’ve been laughed at for having the exact same view.

What he calls “capitalism” is really “meritocracy” and while we have never actually had a meritocracy, he is correct in that the trend has been going further and further away from this ideal. And that this trend has been accelerating. When he said “capitalism is dead”, that should be interpreted as “meritocracy is dead” (I think it’s mostly dead)

What he calls “feudalism” is really “aristocracy” which he has a good point in that wealth is now largely inherited, not earned and this now today applies even to attaining home ownership. Also in that the “aristocracy” once again controls the government and therefore laws and decisions about who to tax and who not to tax.

So good video OP. Solution proposed of fight politically for change.

I’ve just changed my vote to YANBU because it’s not your fault he called aristocracy “feudalism” or meritocracy “capitalism” so I can see how you got a bit muddled up. And of course, still agree with the rest of your post.

Property ownership is not a social essential; look at successful European countries where renting is the common and preferred model .

I agree, IF we also had the rental conditions that they have in Europe.
Ie, secure 5-10 year tenancies, the ability to decorate your home to your own tastes, the ability to keep a pet, and good sound insulation between solid, purpose-built flats.
In the UK we have none of this.

It's the great reset. It's already in motion.

Why are people not protesting?
firstly bread and circuses - focus attention on trivia - celebrity, pop star, sports personality. Secondly divide the potential activists - environmental protests, focus on race issues, transgender issues. Look at the protesters - many are children of quite or very rich establishment members, the policing is very light and punishments are not equivalent to less “approved of” issues.

There is a poverty crisis, appalling disparity but focus on slavery, if a woman can have a penis or blocking infrastructure refocuses attention.

But it's really a global issue.

Is it a global issue? House prices are much cheaper in many other countries. Wealth inequality in the US is Dore, and I agree that's what the current government wants to emulate but in many European countries there are active government policies in place to limit the wealth gap. I am just hoping my DC will have the freedom to move elsewhere as I am worried they will not have the standard of living when they are adults that I have had. It's shocking that in one of the world's wealthiest countries young people will likely have a worse standard of living than their parents.

I had hoped the Singapore on Thames vision had been dealt a fatal blow by Liz Truss's attempts to try and enact Britannia Unchained in one fell swoop but perhaps we will have to watch it creep in instead.

Thank you for the detailed comments, much appreciated... Will mull over today....

Yep, I agree and it’s depressing as hell. But carry on voting Tory people because ‘they know what a woman is’, even if they don’t give a shit about her being able to eat.

The wealth gap is bad and it's being driven by several factors that, in turn, are bring exacerbated by our policy makers. We've got an aging population that are living longer, a trend of microfamilies due to divorce or death and a really crappy planning system that does not work for the people living here now or in the future. On top of that, we have a lot less land to play with compared to other European countries and we've made the situation worse by concentrating wealth in the south-east.

What are the solutions? Investment in skills and training (there's going to be less young people about and we need every one). Investment in our northern cities, rebalancing away from London. End right to buy, give the House Associations a chance to build & hold onto their stock. Finally, put a FTT (financial transaction tax) on stock market holdings and tax land properly instead of relying on stamp duty.

There's a lot we can do to alleviate this situation. In the end it's going to be forced on us as there's only so much tax you can raise from people in low paid jobs and the % of elderly population is going up - they need to funded and cared for.