to think this isn’t enough for a lifetime?

[Teaandtoast35]

It feels to me like there’s no clear answer. Perhaps I’m waiting on one.

pros
-I want this to (magically?) work out
-I love him
-he loves me
-he wants to be together
-he tries and cares (after a lot of effort from me to convert him, he now does washing up, laundry, bins, hoovers; he cooks for special occasions and bakes; he books date nights - has always done this)
-he loves our children (all of whom we have lost, mcs and a stillborn baby)
—we have many of the same big picture values
-I fancy him, find him cute, sweet, I love how enthusiastic he is about things he loves
-he works hard (but his work is relaxed; he has no reason to be stressed)
-he supports my career and is a big believer in me
-we have had many good times
-he is (apart from the below) into equality, thoughtful, and we do discuss things
-we enjoy many of the same things
-we have similar vibes
-we have built a life together and been there for each other

cons

-we have never had frequent sex and it’s become much “simpler” over the last few years. I would like more and to have fun with it. It never really feels like he desires me, although he doesn’t have any problems “getting there” once we are doing it.
-he tells me he wants the same (sex wise) which is confusing because he barely ever initiates and only when I’ve reminded him we’re not having any or when we are ttc
-if he is tired or feeling uncomfortable at a social function (as many of us feel from time to time) or is busy and I interrupt him to ask a question, he will go cold on me, look at me with dead eyes, pretend to be falling asleep, not laugh at anything. I don’t know if he looks at other people with dead eyes but he does the fakey fall asleep in front of other people. It feels like a communication, but also a punishment for making him come out.
-we argue frequently and i get the impression, particularly lately now I’ve started to question things, that I’m talking to get our relationship on track because if we want to keep ttc we have to not argue when we have kids, and he’s talking to defend himself and blame me for bringing things up. He does see my pov… but I worry he’s just repeating back to me what I’ve said to placate me.
-we discussed recently that some of his frustration comes from thinking “why can’t she just do this thing for me? It’s not hard and I do a lot for her”. I cannot list all the things I’ve done for him during our 5 years together here because it would be a very long post. I would say he pulls his weight. But this attitude leads to things like eg I’m miscarrying and have back pain and he asks for my bank card so he can go get me ibuprofen (he has a LOT more money than me). I yell at him and he gets the point — if we labour share, I’ll do the pain part and he can go spend 50p.
-he doesn’t often laugh at my jokes. I know that sounds silly but I wish our time together wasn’t just being cute and pleasant and laughing at mutual things but I wish he didn’t give me blank face so much.
-sometimes the atmosphere he creates around the house is just difficult
-we don’t often eat together because his diet is completely calorie controlled and fitted with exercise so there’s no bonus in terms of evening meals together or less time cooking! it also means we can’t spontaneously go out as much as I’d like
-he talks about scheduling all the time and acts very busy when he isn’t so often days in a row I’ll hear “I don’t have enough time!!” a lot of the day. Always time for the gym tho.

My friends all live with great men who are difficult in some ways. In some ways I think my thinking is more about whether I choose to spend my life on a man, or choose to spend my life on myself (career, seeing my friends and family) and kids (we have struggled so much, I’m not scared to try alone as I feel like it either will work or won’t work and I’m having IVF regardless). I am so sad but I’m also a bit numb, from having gone through a lot of pain and wondering how much pain/struggle I’m willing to take on over the next 25 years (ie if we do have children I’ll be tied to him). Also a factor: my last ex had a horrible illness while we were together and I took care of him throughout. He also had a lot of these issues and I swore I wouldn’t spend my life taking care of anyone in that way again. I want to take care of kids and I want to do my work and live my life and I want to, if there’s a man there, have sex and laughter and love and that be the thing that keeps us together through all the crap bits.

But I’m in a total fog and I just don’t know what to do. I don’t know how bad the cons list is. I’ve only had 2 LTRs. Help

Two things jumped out at me.

1. Dead eyes. He should look at you with love and kindness. It appears he is not emotionally involved.

2.Bank card for paracetamol. WTAF? If he can’t get you paracetamol when you are in pain, what kind of future would you have together? In the words of the song “know when to walk away, know when to run”. Don’t walk. RUN!

@Unicorn2022 I just wanted to say I’m so sorry for your losses. It’s the worst situation to be in. I’m sure you did all you could at the time and please don’t blame yourself. It’s their poor behaviour, not our lack of action that is to blame. And very difficult to drag yourself off the couch and actually make decisions when you are physically and emotionally experiencing loss after loss and heavy grief. And of course people who act poorly don’t seem that way at the beginning, or you think it’s a one off and you’re a loving person so you want to give them a chance. Anyway. I hope you found a way out and a good life, and I hope I’ll find mine too.

Thank you so much everyone for your help. I wanted to return to ask: any advice on how to tell him?

I’ve got my ducks in a row (thank you again MN). How should I say it? We have our children together so I would like to remain on good terms. I’m willing to say anything as he doesn’t take me seriously anyway. I’m wondering what plays best into his beliefs… for instance, I think it will be easier if it’s convenient for him, if he can just get in with his life… so I might move out all in one, say he can take the flat (this is fine anyway), leave kitchen clean (I know, it feels insane to be doing this but I want to help this work as much as possible and I know if he’s coming after me it will be harder). Should I tell the truth, that I’ve realised it’s not behaviour but an attitude and it’s manipulative, or should I act like I’m the problem bc I’m miserable with grief (his narrative), or should I give him an out like “I know it’s painful for you to talk about but I think we both know it’s over”? I know this seems like a lot of thought. I’m nervous. I don’t think he’d get violent, but I am just I think carrying around a lot of pain and cortisol bc of our losses and I feel like more in the form of a long, drawn out break up would be crushing. Also, I worry he’ll get petty and start saying “this is mine, that’s yours” about stuff. Any advice from any veterans out there would be amazing.

When I posted first time I really had just woken up to his behaviour being not just behaviour but more like tactics based on his belief that he’s justified to manipulate me because … well, I don’t know, because I interrupt him sometimes? It’s so sad, for several reasons, but the shock is keeping me from crying. Although today, I started moving things out and that made me cry. Whatever he felt about me, I really loved him and I really tried and put my eggs in this basket and thought it would work. I keep reading this post and your comments to remind me of the reality. It’s been somewhat difficult to stay on track as we’ll have an argument and then suddenly he’s so sweet and acts like nothing is wrong and I start to feel crazy and like, wait, am I nuts? Is something wrong? But at some point the facade slips. I now can’t not see it. He can be suddenly almost vicious — about tiny, petty things, like me paying him 90% but not 100% attention. I so want to be happy, and not ignored and left alone or just spoken to so irritably all the time.

I really loved him and I really tried and put my eggs in this basket and thought it would work. A lot of us have been in a similar situation in that respect. When it does not in fact work, it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you or you did something wrong.

From what you’ve said, anything you say to him will be problematic, so maybe it’s best to keep it simple and give him as few opportunities as possible to keep on punishing you. Perhaps just tell him the basic truth, that you’re unhappy with the relationship and you’re leaving. If you say it’s because of his behaviour he’ll deny the behaviour. But he can’t tell you how you feel, so he can’t argue if you say you’re unhappy. He can blame you for the relationship breakdown all he likes, the important thing is that you end it and start rebuilding a life that doesn’t have his cruelty in it.

I’m sure you’re right in that moving out in one go will be the least difficult option. Of course it will be painful but long conversations trying to make him understand will be worse.

You’ll always feel a bond with him because of your lost children, but that doesn’t mean you’re better off with him than without. It doesn’t sound as though he has helped you with your grief anyway. You’ll continue to grieve, and I can’t believe it will be more painful than it already is.

I hope you can be free of him soon and build a better life. 💐

“after a lot of effort from me to convert him, he now does washing up, laundry, bins, hoovers”

Didn’t even make it to your cons as this “pro” had be rolling my eyes. So fundamentally he’s lazy and too good for women’s work?

Thank you @FictionalCharacter for that lovely and thoughtful and encouraging post.

I did it everyone! Always sad when people don’t “follow up” on their posts so…

I did it in one and told him very basically that I was unhappy and didn’t want to try anymore and I even said I had fallen out of love. I don’t even know what that means really but I think it’s true. It all got too much and I stopped caring enough to realise it wasn’t good for me.

I feel low and very tired but there is suddenly quiet in my brain where before there was vigilance (for him - will he be in a good mood? Etc) and I can dream about possibilities for my future life that would have been impossible with him.

Good luck to anyone making the same decision and reading this. I think people rarely regret leaving. I miss him but I feel better for having my own time and mind back.

This is enough to advise to LTB

I feel low and very tired but there is suddenly quiet in my brain where before there was vigilance (for him - will he be in a good mood? Etc) and I can dream about possibilities for my future life that would have been impossible with him.

Hold on to that thought - it will sustain you when you feel low and at risk of succumbing to his hoovering - and be aware that people like him will almost certainly try to hoover you back in.

Good on you, wishing you all the luck in the world as you navigate your new, happier, life x

I just wanted to update this for anyone reading. I broke up with this partner, and with distance I can see he really wasn’t good to me. He was much nicer and more understanding than I thought he would be when I broke up with him and he hasn’t tried to get back together. I’ve been able to really take care of myself and I feel much more stable, secure, healthy, and happy. I am much much happier than I was.

An additional thought: Im not anti a relationship in the future but I am starting to see relationships as more of a lifestyle option… and there are other options. I’ve made my life about work I’m passionate about and also trying to have living children, which is an ongoing struggle and very difficult, but in some ways easier without also having to cope with being treated poorly.

Good luck to anyone reading this post and thinking of leaving a relationship that is making you unhappy. It feels like a fog when you are in it, but the view is much clearer from here. I also recommend reading Why Does He Do That? as it clarified a lot for me about the controlling behaviour.

Best of luck for the future, OP

Well done OP and thanks for updating. This would be a very helpful read for people in that situation. I was i a relationship like that and it was only after I got out that I realised I was so much happier alone than with him.

Well done OP.

Oh I am so glad you are free. And so,so glad you are happy 😊