Is this normal for social services?

[faunaandfun]

Dn (10) has been taken out of my sisters care and placed in the care of 'family members'. A bunch if us have clubbed together to have him as his parents have been deemed unfit (true).

The only problem is, it's been 2 weeks since DN has been in our collective care, he isn't handling it very well but there has been radio silence from the social worker. Is this normal? I would think taking a child from their parents warrants perhaps a weekly visit at least?

the icing on the cake is the fact that dn was excluded from school the day after he was taken out of his parents care, then its a the half term holiday, so there has been absolutely no normality for this poor child and nobody has even called to check if he is OK.

Everyone feels a little confused and unsure of what to do, where we can go from here.

Another thing is proposed time frames.
We were told dn needs to stay with family for the short term, with a longer term arrangement if needed.

We asked what does short term mean?
no answer. Oh i couldn't possibly say.
only when we said 'am I thinking along the right lines with 2 nights? or will it be more like a week?' and the social worker laughed and told us it's more like 3 weeks to a month before we xan have an emergency (I despair) meeting and then we will talk about time frames.'
Why oh why wouldn't you give us at least an estimate? Short term to me is a week, a month seems like a longer term arrangement and then there is the rest if his life.

A few of us have contacted with queries, we have had no phonecards answered and texts ignored for 3 working days (with a weekend in-between one! that's 5 days of nothing after a child's been taken away from sisters care and put into ours with no warning and no fucking help.)

In my experience they can be slow in situations where they perceive there not to be an immediate risk - so because your nephew is now not in his parents' care he will be less of a priority (because services are woefully, woefully underfunded, not because the social workers don't care!).

It is also possible for people to fall through the cracks (has he recently been transferred from one team to another, for example?).

Do you know which team he is under, for example early help? Does he have a named social worker? Try to find out his school's safeguarding lead an email them now, including your contact details maybe?

Short term in these circumstances generally means while court proceedings are ongoing to determine the long term plan (I assume that will be the case here, unless his parents have agreed that they can't look after him long term).

Unfortunately, proceedings generally last at least 26 weeks, often longer if there are delays.

I can't speak to your personal circumstances but from your OP my assumption would be that the social work team are hoping you can care for your nephew for potentially several months. Long term would mean a decision has been made that he can't return to his parents, and the process of this decision being made often isn't a straightforward one.

There is a fostering board with other kinship carers. There will be lots of experienced people on there.

Oh and re the lack of visit by a social worker - no, that isn't good practice at all. I suspect the social work team is very overstretched and firefighting cases where children are at high risk, so as the pp said your nephew won't be as high a priority. That doesn't make it right, but that's the way things often are in under resources local authorities. I'd encourage you to keep advocating for your nephew, and escalate to management level if needed.

You may find this organisation helpful:
kinship.org.uk/

So you aren't being unreasonable to want to know these things at all however, it is a how long is a piece of string situation. The social worker needs to work firstly to try to reunite dn with his parents and look at what support they might need to get to a place where that's safe and possible. This is very individual to the situation so that probably makes it hard for them to give you a timeframe. The other problem is that social services has been consistently underfunded for years even though we have more families and kids using the service than ever before, the demand is unreal and covid made it ten times worse and a lot of social work teams still aren't fully staffed. This has a serious impact on how cases are prioritised with kids in the most unsafe circumstances getting more regular visits. Because your dn is safe with you at the moment he probably isn't seen as being at as much risk as others even though you're right there's totally valid concerns there. It's not great at the minute and I think most social workers are doing their best they need more resourcing but that's a government level issue. I'd recommend continuing to advocate for your dn and link in with the support charities for kinship carers who can help you and advise you. Ask your social worker for how often you should be seen as per their statutory duty and ask if you can book these meetings in blocks to keep them as close together as possible. I'm sorry that's not more helpful it is really difficult at the moment and you're not alone in feeling this way.

As far as they are concerned your nephew is out of danger and technically not in care because he is with family and not a foster carer. Experience of this is that things tend to move a bit slower in these circumstances.

A visit every 6 weeks is standard for SS

This really isn’t good practice by the sw. This kind of situation shouldn’t drift but often does due to pressure of work. Are you on ok terms with DN’s parents? They should get legal advice from Children Panel solicitors (they can search on the Law Society website). They should get legal aid. It sounds like the LA should be starting care proceedings without delay and that would have the advantage of getting your DN his own solicitor and guardian and setting some timescales. The parents getting solicitors might well speed this up.
Otherwise you need to ask on what basis DN is placed with you/the family. Is he on a child protection plan ? Is he accommodated by the LA and formally placed with you? The LA should be giving you support. If the sw isn’t answering then you can ask to speak to their team manager.

I voted YABU as it’s only been 2 weeks.

They deem you good enough to look after DN so I can’t see why they’d need to keep checking up with you.

If you have any issues though don’t hesitate to contact them, especially if you are struggling.

You could always drop them an email and just ask what happens next and the timescale.

We we’re going to need to do this for our DN as her mum had an abusive boyfriend and the SW said we’d be looking at a few months at least until the mum sorts herself out.

Hi @faunaandfun

So, good practice would be to have visited in those 2 weeks, However, as you've obviously been assessed as suitable carers, and with services as they are, it's not unusual.

They will need to consider the long term care plans, so if any family are willing (and presuming DN can't go home to mum following assessments) they may conduct Special Guardianship Order assessments.

In terms of what is short term, honestly, it can be between 2 weeks to 5/6 months sometimes more.

Proceedings generally take up to 26 weeks and depending on how complex a case is can go over that timescale.

OP you need to specify whether the child is already subject to care proceedings and if so, is the child subject to an ICO and have the family carers been assessed as connected person foster carers? Or the same situation but subject to s20 rather than ICO

Or is the child with family as a 'family arrangement' and therefore not subject to proceedings and not in care?

Is the child subject to a CHIN plan or a CP plan

The advice and situation depends on the child's status

I'm glad you are able to look after your DN. Can't be easy for any of you, least of all him. @bellac11 is right - how often a SWer will visit will depend on what 'kind' of arrangement is in place. It may be that this is seen as a voluntary family arrangement (e.g your sister has consented to DN going to live with you). This would be very different to a situation when a child has been removed from a parents care and gone to live with an unrelated foster carer under a court order.

however, the SWer should have made you / your family aware of that - and also should have been upfront about when they would visit (as others have said, I suspect they are of the view that he is safe). If you have their number / or the number for SS, do phone them and put these issues to them. You all deserve to know the answers and you need to know what the longer term plan is (e.g. is DN going to go back to his parents?)

Call Family Rights Group helpline for advice. If the child has been placed with you by the social workers (ie the social workers have said/ implied child not safe with parents and if you don't take them in will go into care) you are entitled to assessment, support, financial support, your own social worker etc. sometimes social workers try to get out of providing this by saying it's a voluntary family arrangement, but if initiated by them they have a duty to support you. Get advice asap.

Well all that happened was that we had a meeting the day after dn was taken to my sisters. We all had a bunch of questions and not one was answered.

There was no talk of a child in need or child protection plan, she wanted to make a plan but nothing was really said and we all had to really push to get her to say 3 weeks to a month.

26 weeks! wow. I suppose this would be more of a family situation but there are difficulties. Dn mum showed up all crazy, couldn't get through to social worker, caller the authorities In the end.
Dn ran away and was acting very violently (weapons, hitting kicking, threatening the younger children) and couldn't get through for that either.

Out of the family caring for him, 2 have children 2 don't, he has been violent to the children and mothers (not the fathers or male relatives) and now we aren't able to have him back (he's refusing but also it's a safety concern for the younger children too so I'm relieved in a way) so that's left only 2 family members to share the load, but they work full time and between them don't have enough time at home to care for him dproperly, sister A has taken annual leave but of course that is limited.
Resentment is building but he's refusing to come back to us. He is an only child, possibly and? Gets very overwhelmed with noise and there is no 'own space' in mine or sister Bs house.
of course school run is a concern when schools on again.

oh god it's all such a mess and I feel as though we have all been thrown to the sharks without even a dingy to ride it out.

S and b are taking this way easier than I thought and basically taking a holiday with unlimited free childcare.

thank you for this
it does feel as though we have had a situation forced upon us all (not just by the social worker but by dns parents aswell) and then that's it.

They're slow, maybe as to speak to a manager if you are not happy, explain you need more help. X

Agree with purplejungle. Sw should be much more active with you and be organising the entitlements you’re due. Also, is dn seeing parents? There should be an arrangement for contact if this is appropriate.

Contact SW and ask to talk to the social worker. If no response, ask to talk to their manager.

The social worker will have to do a parenting assessment which takes approx 14 weeks too, you need to get their managers number and try to contact them, you should be entitled to some support and it sounds like his behaviour needs assessing too x

Make noise. Lots of it. Contact your local family support and intervention team. Once the child has been removed from the danger of immediate harm they will slow to a glacial pace. Your DN is fortunate to have you as he must be feeling lost and bewildered. Your local trust will be going through the process of obtaining an interim care order and you will have to decide if you will continue as you are or if he is to enter the foster/care system. Be aware that if you opt to take him in on a Kinship care basis you will have much less support than Foster carers get , unless you are prepared to continually ask for it. Its also important that he receives therapeutic care. As with everything else resources are very strictly rationed

It's a very difficult balancing act. You need to be honest about the impact this will have on you and your family's lives. Whichever path you choose to follow there's nothing easy about the situation. You all have my very best wishes

I've done absolutely nothing apart from one day which was a disaster. He's refused to come back and my dh is refusing to have him back (which is fair enough but he's my little nephew and this is causing us arguments while my sister is taking 'my days') Sister has taken the brunt and its taking its toll. Parents are 'visiting' dn and taking the mick out of her hospitality. eating all her food staying over, dropping in all hours.

We had an 'almost overdose' too which is just.
the parents are addicts and just everything is such a car crash at the moment.

we all saw this coming a mile off and now it's here, dn is way too old to handle, he's a big lad and it's difficult to restrain him when he's acting out. I certainly couldn't handle it. He went from 0 to 100 in one second. No trigger (noise or argument, obviously he's under a lot of stress)

feeling very lost. Its one big nightmare.

(realise it sounds like I'm moaning about dn. it's the situation, not the boy. he's a lovely boy. This situation has just been one thing after another)

Wee pet he's been through massive trauma and is still very much in the middle of it. It might help you to do some reading into trauma and attachment because it might help you understand some of his reactions and behaviours. He's probably still trying to adjust to the different household and boundaries/expectations etc that go with that. I'd push for a mental health assessment for him as well based on what you've said, he needs further support to manage his emotions and to be honest that would probably be difficult to do and maintain school which is why so many kids in care have absences from school at least temporarily. It sounds like at the minute he's been told he's safe with you all and can trust you, but everything he knows is telling him that adults aren't to be trusted and aren't reliable so he's testing to see where your breaking points are because he doesn't understand anything else. It sounds like contact isn't very structured- he may need more formal contact than his parents dropping in and making themselves at home so he can feel like this new home is his space rather than theirs. Obviously you want to support him but it can't be at the expense of your little ones so maybe you need to sit down together as a family and agree what each person can do, who can make dinners, who can do respite nights when it's all too much, who can take him out 1-1 and spend time with him doing something fun. There are also charities that work with young people in different types of care so you could try contacting them for advice and support. They might come and take him out for a few hours a week and give him someone neutral to talk to. I'm not sure where you're based to recommend specific ones. Also SWs are notoriously hard to get hold of. If something is happening and you can't get your allocated social worker ask to speak to the duty (on call) social worker instead. There should be an out of hours emergency line for your area as well.

Which family member was the child actually placed with? That person should have been given a named social worker as a point of contact, if you can't get hold of them ask for their Manager. I understand you were intending to operate some sort of rota system in order to share the burden, but this was always likely to fail unfortunately, because if there's one thing a traumatised child needs it's routine and consistency. If no one is able to provide a stable placement for this child then my advice would be to communicate this very clearly with Children's Services, explain to them that your DN is a risk to younger children and your childfree family members all have work commitments that prevent them from meeting his needs. If you cannot get hold of his allocated SW or their manager then Google your local MASH (multi agency safeguarding hub) and explain that as a family you have tried but you are not coping. It sounds as though he would benefit from a Foster placement with experienced carers where he is the only child in the home. Contact with family members can still be facilitated. Whether such a placement is available in your area is the question.

Forgot to say, have any of you been in contact with the child's school? Did they know he had just been removed from his parents when they excluded him? I am a school Safeguarding Lead and we would do everything possible to avoid an exclusion in these circumstances, but you would be surprised how often we aren't told a child has been removed or changed placements until well after it's happened. Even during half term there will be a DSL on duty so get their contact details from the school website and email them asking for a call ASAP. They will be able to put pressure on the social worker to offer your family some support and guidance, and if necessary an alternative placement for your DN, as it really sounds like you've been left to get on with it. On a practical note they need to know what's been going on as the behaviours you've been seeing are likely to show up in school and they need to plan his reintegration following exclusion in a way that won't cause further stress to him.

I'd push for a mental health assessment for him as well based on what you've said, he needs further support to manage his emotions

I don't disagree but realistically CAMHS are very unlikely to accept a referral for a child who has just been removed from his parents a couple of weeks ago and currently has no stable, long-term placement. They will say that his current behaviours are a reaction to the situation rather than evidence of a MH issue, and that he needs to be in a stable home situation before they can undertake therapy effectively with him. It's worth checking if the school have a counselling service or links with any charities that can support with emotional regs in the meantime.