To be annoyed with my friend

[Toddlerproblems]

My friend and I both have 2 year olds. We see each other fairly regularly. We live in a very small village and they will go to nursery and school (small, single form classes of about 8 - 10 kids) together. There are few children of the same age living close by. They will both soon start nursery together.

Last week, her DS hit mine hard enough to leave a decent lump on his head with a heavy and solid toy. It was on purpose and for attention.

This is not a one off. Her DS is often aggressive in his behaviour towards my DS. I know they're toddlers and some challenging behaviour is normal, but his behaviour is becoming more frequent and more severe. I don't feel like I can keep my child safe around hers.

The only reason I haven't ended this friendship is because we will see each other at the school gates the whole time our kids are at school and they will be in the same class right up to secondary school, so I need to make it amicable going forward.

*also posted in behaviour, but posted here for traffic.

My best friend is a teacher of martial arts and what you've said is a huge leap.

Yes, you're taught your first move is always walk away - backwards (seriously, so you can defend yourself if necessary). But bullies smell fear, target the weak, and a child hitting back demonstrates they can and will defend themselves. The bullies learn they're not an easy target and don't bother.

We're talking about toddlers here, not inner city gang culture. There aren't going to be any body bags!

I’d feel the exact same @Toddlerproblems . Your friend should be stepping in. You don’t need to fall out with her but I would be meeting up less. It has happened more than once and she is still not stepping up.

That is the biggest leap I have seen in a while on MN

why exactly?

kids will learn values from their parents at a young age. A parent telling their kid to hit back will allow them to have the view and that violence is acceptable.

I've worked in hospitals and seen people disfigured by glass etc in their face and even seen people killed in fights. All because they had the 'he/she hit me first so I hit back' mentality.

It can come from peers but also often comes from parents and it's bad advise.

I've taught krav maga for 16 years and could kill somebody. I was punched by a girl in a bar 3 years ago, I could have murdered her with my bear hands or done serious damage but I walked away from the situation.

The best advise we teach in self defense school is to deescalate the situation and walk away.

Ok you do realise you are posting on a thread about 2 toddlers doing what toddlers do.

I think you are actually yanking chains at this stage so I’m going to say no more on that.

@ChaosDemon no, not likely... though I did have to confiscate a hammer and a power tool from the very same child as he ran past me the other week. Not even slightly exaggerating, though I wish I bloody were.

@therubbiliser it's almost every time we see them, but this was one of the worst. We've previously has a hand print shaped slap to the face and a full bite mark to a leg.

*Ok you do realise you are posting on a thread about 2 toddlers doing what toddlers do.

I think you are actually yanking chains at this stage so I’m going to say no more on that*

you are missing the point, my point is that the child was being taught to fight and that violence is ok. She'll grow up with that dogma into an adult and 1 day it may bite her in the ass.

Yes I think that PP forgets that we are talking about toddlers 🙄

What do you want your friend to do? She currently is removing her child from the situation and apologising to you from what you have said and I am sure she doesn’t want or encourage her child to hit. If it is impacting your child then stop meeting up with them for a bit.

Was thinking the same! Imagine the headlines “kind hands mantra fails as fatal brawl ensues between gang of 2 year olds”

😂

🤣🤣🤣 you've made my evening.

I am curious as to why you consider this to not be good parenting?

YANBU to stop arranging playdates. And you're right probably letting the friendship fizzle out is the best way. However if ever directly asked it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to say that your DC is frightened of being hurt by her DC

Hence posting in AIBU. (though AIBU has gone off the deep end again) I need the mumsnet perspective on this - I'm a reasonably regular poster / lurker and knew I'd get a range of responses. My friend and I parent very differently and are very aware of this (often discussed), but I'm struggling this time.

Sorry, that was in response to @Thesearmsofmine

🤣🤣🤣

There’s endless literature on this- but here’s one resource

redkitedays.co.uk/naughty-step-doesnt-work/

Apologies if I wasn't clear.
Children aren't naturally savages at the age of 2. That your and my child were attacked is because of poor boundaries. Assuming no SEN which was the case with my child, hence I stopped contact.

Thanks for the link. I've had a quick read but in my experience it's worked with my 2. I think expecting a toddler to be able to understand reasoning is a step too far for me. I appreciate other people do things differently though.

It’s not judgement to think that if you know your child regularly hurts other children you need to helicopter them. The answer isn’t everyone just placidly allowing their child to be a punching bag until the point this child stops hurting them. If the child regularly hits others and can’t understand the word no then the mum should be sitting playing alongside so she is close enough to intervene before other children are hurt.

Agreed a two year old can’t really engage in reasoning , nor do they really understand consequences, or possess much capacity for empathy etc. hitting/ pushing/ biting are common toddler behaviours. Agreed that parents need to be vigilant and do their best to intervene/ prevent these things , but often they don’t manage - as the OP said at 2 these things can happen out the blue with no warning- so much as a glance!

There are so many issues with the concept of the naughty corner / step / chair. Mainly in how it's managed (or not). I remember the days of being sat on the Step for ages, and yes, it was pointless. I just got a cold arse.

However, if this space is used to remove a child from a situation and explain hitting etc is not nice, it works. Or at least, it does with mine. What doesn't work us asking them to parrot 'sorry' or show empathy - empathey doesn't actually develop until approximately 8 years of age and isnt fully developed until 21!

I don't think any model of behaviour management suggests letting your child continue hitting others until they grow out of it though. Yes, hitting is a toddler thing. No, letting them repeatedly hit/kick/bite other kids is absolutely no parenting.

@TiptoeThroughTheToadstools sadly, I think this is probably the most likely outcome. Hopefully things will change in the future.

Yanbu he sounds like he’s turning into a horrible little brat due to lack of parenting.

The odd misdemeanour is okay if the parent is suitably mortified and takes steps to correct behaviour eg naughty step but if it keeps happening I’d cool the play dates for a while, or maybe meet up at the park instead?

Out of curiosity - is your 2 year old
your first child?