The Flat White (coffee) is getting downgraded

[Towcester]

Light hearted (kind of)

Always liked a short strong coffee with a bit of foamy milk on top (But I want to taste the coffee not just milk).

When the flat white arrived in the UK it was perfect for my tastes. Now, wherever I order one it seems to come like a latte...like drinking warm milk with a hint of coffee. Is it just charged at a premium rate now but served like a latte? Maybe they add two shots but they serve it in a big cup so it's 90% milk.

I know the cortado is the obvious alternative but when you go to some cafes they don't really know what a corrado is.

Macchiato is probably the one if it is served like in Italy but it seldom is.

I serve my flat whites as a double ristretto rather than espresso. It’s tamped harder and extracted faster so you get the intensity, topped with smooth hot milk and only in one (small) size.
The grief I get from people wanting large flat whites and I say we don’t serve them!

@AmazingBouncingFerret

Where’s your establishment? I think I’ve found my new morning coffee haunt! I don’t care how long is adds to the commute lol

If you're in London, Benugo do a good, small, strong flat white. They have the concession at many of the museums and galleries, plus the Barbican, and have been my saviour on many a long, tiring day trip when the kids were small enough to be in the pushchair ...

I work in a coffee shop. How we make the coffee goes like this:

Flat white- 2 shot espresso with latte milk in a small cup.

Latte - 2 shot espresso with latte milk (which is steamed and stretched milk, basically)

Cappuccino - 2 shot espresso with frothy milk (has more air in the milk, so the coffee tastes stronger)

Americano - hot water goes in the cup first, then a 2 shot espresso.

Latte, cappuccino and and americano all come in medium and large, but have the same amount of coffee in so I'd assume that the larger the drink, the weaker the coffee tastes because there will be more milk in? I don't actually work on coffee and I don't drink it, so this is an assumption and isn't a definitive guide :)

These days they always tell you the filter machine is broken (wherever you go). I think they just prefer to sell more expensive coffees. I used to love Pret Filter with hot milk.

OP - you're right, I can't drink very strong coffee. When Flat Whites first arrived in UK they gave me the shakes, they were so strong. Now I could have a few a day. Weak coffee with a spot of frothes milk on top.

Starbucks (well the ones near me in the Midlands) seem to have stopped doing filter coffee. Same in Costa and the other chains apart from Pret,

I was in NYC and ordered a delicious filter (brewed) coffee every morning, the barista was empathising with me that they aren’t widely available in my part of the UK. I much prefer the taste.

We do a nice flat white where I work but the amount of customers who complain about it being too strong or question why we cant do them large is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's a daily thing, people coming back to me angry at how strong I made it (two shots).

I've been thinking exactly the same for a while now OP! My go to coffees are now either a macchiato or a cortado.

The amount of people who order a macchiato from us and are expecting a huge milky drink, I blame Starbucks for that one.

Flat white is my favourite too, sadly non existent here in Italy! The nearest here is an espressino, an espresso with hot milk, about a third of the size of a cappuccino. So not nearly big enough like a flat white would be!

I think in UK coffee shops the confusion around "macchiato" is because there is a latte macchiato (which is a latte in a UK coffee shop) and a Caffe macchiato which is an espresso with a tiny bit of milk.

I also love a filter coffee but have also found that the majority of chain coffee shops in the uk - despite having a filter machine - don’t ever use it (except pret).

One of my favourite parts of travelling in the US is that literally every shop/cafe/deli/gas station has self service filter coffee machines where you can help yourself to a massive cup for around $1-2. And the half and half creamer is lush as well ❤️.

My understanding was that filter coffee actually has a higher caffeine content than Americans/espresso? Obv it depends on type of coffee/method but when I was pregnant and researching which coffee was the best to have, filter always came out as the ‘worst’. 🙄

Agree with McDonalds or Greggs. Plus it's half the cost of everywhere else.

But I find a flat white a little small, so I sometimes buy a latte and a double espresso and put them both in my reusable cup (as far as I know, McDs won't put their drinks directly into your cup).

I agree, at first it was mainly small independent coffee places run by Australians and New Zealanders, who know how to make them properly - not just the right balance of coffee to milk but also to get the consistency of the milk to the right thick velvety texture. (Flat White in Soho, London for example). And the cups were only one medium size.

Also, certainly in NZ, lots of good coffee places roast their own beans or buy them in frequently, and so the coffee is from high quality beans, very freshly roasted and ground and therefore stronger and richer in taste. UK coffee often tastes thin & bitter to me as beans are not very good quality to start with, then not freshly roasted & ground.

Now in the UK it seems it's anything goes for a Flat White - too large a cup, tepid and the milk not the right consistency at all. Anyone saying a McDonald's or Greggs Flat White is OK clearly have never had a proper Aussie/Kiwi one.

@MindatWork.

OMG I used to live in Canada for a while and I adored the coffee creamer. I usually hate North American artificial shite but I find coffee creamer is so much nicer with instant/filter coffee than milk.

A flat white isn’t a short drink. That’s an entirely UK affectation. It is the same as a latte in cup size in Australia & NZ but the milk is less aerated.

What gets served up here is a piccolo or occasionally a magic.

www.australia.com/en-gb/things-to-do/food-and-drinks/australian-coffee-cheat-sheet.html

McDonald’s flat whites are surprisingly good! But their coffee keeps creeping up in price.

Yes! The ones I've had recently have been made with the same frothed milk and in the same size cup as a latte. What's the point of having it on the menu as a separate item?

I've found it's usually ok in wanky coffee shops but definitely not chains.

I agree. That's all I want. A filter coffee with splash of milk. I never know what to ask for!

In the last few months they've started making their filter coffees much weaker.
I get that they're much cheaper than their espresso based coffees, but at the same time as making them weaker, they put the price up from 99p to £1.25!

They are not wrong.

Macchiato means "stained". There are two types of macchiato.

A latte macchiato is hot milk stained with coffee. This is what Brits actually mean when they ask for a "latte'. (If you order a latte in Italy, you will just get milk.)

An espresso macchiato is coffee stained with milk - an espresso with a tiny amount of foamed milk on top.

ahh that’s interesting, my customers are definitely expecting a caramel macchiato Starbucks style and are confused when they are served a tiny little drink!

Perfect!

My independent cafe does a lovely, strong flat white which I suspect is similar method to yours. Love them.

I never bother asking for a flat white in any chain. They haven't a clue. The one and only time I asked for one in M&S I got something that was weaker and milkier than a latte! Urgh!!

Probably. I live in a very remote village and the nearest "town" is very small and tourist-orientated to the extent that they'll serve any crap to the bucket and spade brigade.

It's over 40 miles to the nearest Starbucks.

This is why I go for a macchiato. I like to taste the strong coffee but the frothy milk just changes the texture into something softer and adds a little bit of sweetness.

Flat whites are invariably too big and weak.