To think it sets a really bad example for the country when the PMs family have tax dodged millions

[Chloefairydust]

Just that really…

Im really surprised Sunak actually made it to be prime minister considering the recent stories that have been in the news regarding his family avoiding millions of ££ in tax . I actually thought Boris would have been more likely to have been PM. (Not that he’s any better🤔)

How many of the people complaining would:-

1. reduce the amount of tax they are paying if they legally could?

2. believe that how they manage their wealth should be dictated by their husband's job?

The hypocracy and jealousy is astounding.
She did everything she was legally entitled to do.

Not lifelong - 15 years. So if Sunak moved back in 2015 as claimed, that means that in 2022 when he was running for PM, he was intending to leave the UK within 8 years (maximum) and make his permanent hone abroad.

You don't think that speaks to his commitment to the country? You don't think that would be a pertinent fact to be disclosed, if true?

To be clear, I don't think that's the case at all. I think it's a load of bollocks, they didn't intend to leave, and she only said so to avoid tax.

How is it hypocrisy to complain about this?

I'd imagine very few of us have significant overseas income or £30,000 to spare each year to pay for non-dom status. Good for those who do have that kind of money and success, but it would be right to pay taxes in both countries if you do, in fact, intend to stay in one country but earn massively in other. She quite cleverly never disclosed how much she earned in the UK, so who knows how much tax she was paying - maybe she was a "net taker" after all?

You can't tell me that as soon as Rishi ran for MP in 2015 that they, as a couple, were thinking of long-term residency. It is ridiculous to think that his job would not be a factor in this - and she should have ceased to be a non-dom then and there.

But again, she has now ceased to be a non-dom - so clearly, she and her husband agree that there was something not quite right with her status. Or else surely they would have defended it as you all seem to be? Funnily enough, they didn't.

So if we went back to having wife's work taxed on the basis of their husband, would we be happy with that? Why is it only when someone is wealthy that is okay.

I assume she was already paying £30k non dom charge plus tax on Uk earnings so I assume paying a lot more tax than most so wouldn't be a net taker.

There are still a couple of taxes determined by your marital status - Stamp Duty for one. But yes her marriage to an aspiring MP, then Chancellor, then PM, does place her under more scrutiny than anyone else. It's not about her being a wife or a woman, as if the roles were reversed we'd still be having this same debate.

They as a couple have to be seen to be fair and honest - to be above everyone else in the morality stakes. They basically admitted they weren't being that by changing her status, even though they were acting legally.

I'm sorry, but we are dual US / UK citizens who moved from non-dom status to settled status. We're not in their league, but our tax payments are seven figures in both countries. Yes, the amount owed went up when we changed. There is more of the pot on which we pay the higher rate but there is very little on which we are double taxed. I'm sure her financial affair are more complicated than ours, so there might be a small portion on which she is indeed double taxed, but I'm positive she will have had people ensuring that's it's a small percentage of her holdings.

sure, but it’s very different right? It is factual she is doing double taxation. And it’s on overseas earnings, I don’t know your financial circumstance but to compare apples with apples you need to be talking about overseas income held in the us and taxed there and here, this is what the conversation is about. If you are saying you don’t get taxed in both countries on overseas income then you habe exemptions or something in place.

again you’re getting into a level of complexity that is not required for a high level discussion on mumsnet.

Yep. See Nick Clegg and David Miliband

Yes. It’s very possible that as a family they’re all moving to a different country at some point. I’m pretty sure that Rishi Sunak had a green card, so my bet would be on the US.

Interesting a prime minister is being criticised for being an offspring of an immigrant family, whose parents came with nothing, worked hard as business people and sacrificed so they could send him to a leading school. He himself then did well in finance and became very wealthy himself and married an heiress. I would’ve thought that’s a story that could inspire other kids to do well. But no, to some people apparently it would be better if he’d been a downright failure and ended up on social security as a drain on the system.

Very possible. Nick Clegg moved to California with his wife and kids after being an MP here. Also, David Milliband moved to NYC with his wife and kids.

Is it only OK when Labour MPs do this?

@Capri3 or the colour of their skin

@Fushiadreams

No, it's apples to apples. Nutshell version, all our earnings are of overseas origin (USD), distributed half US, half UK. (As US citizens and settled status UK payers) total income and timing of payments matters, where an asset is held made no difference as soon as we went from non-dom to settled.

Exemptions are pretty simple as they're contained in the US/UK tax treaty. Granted, I don't know if this is differently applied to non-US citizens (and where/how green card holders fit in). I also don't know where Ms Murthy was paying tax on her holdings previously (they weren't particularly transparent on that), so don't know what kind of treaties are or are not at play there.

Double taxation would be an issue if she's at the top of a C Corporation, I believe (which is why most people in her position would structure as an S Corporation) and while it's not total double taxation but some aspect of that for capital gains (for which the UK reaches into worldwide holdings).

Either way, my heart's not bleeding for them, and I think considering the amount of money they have, and the position he's in, it's not a good look.

I also, as I said before, don't buy the totally separate finances thing. We have certain investments neither of us can make due to the creation of a conflict or interest for the other. There's no way they haven't been in this position.

This is really a case that has zero to do with the colour of someone's skin. If Ms Murthy was a blonde, Caucasian North American there would still be a distaste for her former non-dom status. From me, at least.

I'm surprised people aren't taking into account that this is the PM's wife. OK, so it may not be illegal to minimise your tax payments but if you are the leading public figure in the country who is responsible for taxation legislation and how tax income is spent, your actions (and by reflection, your spouse with whom your finances are closely intertwined), are going to be subject to greater scrutiny on these matters. Your public perception will be affected by how you handle them.

Having worked in finance since 1979 and seen decades of complex tax law changes (yawn), it is not up to a civil servant to interpret HMRC regulations in such a way as to make their own distinction between what they believe to be 'acceptable tax mitigation' and what is merely 'tax avoidance' by using the rules in a way that parliament did not intend (or in other words, loopholes). In the meantime, like it or not, those loopholes are entirely legal and above board.

It is up to HMRC and the incumbent Government to change the law to close any such loopholes. Not that I am suggesting that a Tory government would leave them open because it suits them and their rich corporate friends, or anything like that.

Tory (and other) politicians have been avoiding tax and using a wide range of loopholes to enhance their incomes for decades now.

Sunak is just one of them. Johnson was shameless in his money-making on the back of being a politician, for example.

Quiite why anyone expects the Tory PM to be 'not rich' is beyond me - it's not as if the Tory benches are filled with horny-handed sons of toil.

And honestlu if you’ve a clue anout what this is about then you’d feel it grossly unfair the uk is taking a tax on over seas income earned in that country and held in that country, it’s crazy, my view is she’s crazy to agree this. No fucking way I would. And I suspect neither would most on here. She must really love her husband and he must Really love his job.

this isn’t avoiding taxes on uk income. It’s not some big company moving their cash overseas. This is a woman who owns shares in companies over seas and earns income on those shares and is taxed in that country snd taxed in the uk on it also. It’s batshit

Have labour got plans to close all these loopholes? Do wealthy Labour MPs make use of these loopholes?

I don't think anyone is suggesting a PM or a PM wife tax affairs shouldn't be scrutinised.

Of course they should.

If a PM or spouse is using a Tax Avoidance Scheme, then I'd be with shouting this shit from the rooftops.

But this isn't the situation. This is a situation is which the PMs wife is entitled to claim Non-Dom Status.

If public perception is Non Dom Status is unfair or should be overhauled or even removed - I agree

But if public perception is the PM wife "dodged" tax, or used a legal loophole or she lied to claim Non Dom Status, - this is wrong.
If you meet the criteria for a Status or Relief or an Allowance and you claim it this is not tax avoidance or morally wrong.

Tory (and other) politicians have been avoiding tax and using a wide range of loopholes to enhance their incomes for decades now

It’s not a party thing, it’s a wealth thing, Keir starmer is worth eight million, he is a multi multi millionaire. Do you think for one moment he doesn’t optimise his tax?

And for the record, Boris Is worth two million versus Keira 8. And Jeremy Corbyn on e milliom

i honestly am agog at the multi millionaires running labour and their supporters calling out the likes of Boris lol.

It’s normal to get taxed on your overseas income. If you had shares in a company abroad, you’d be expected to pay UK taxes on that as a resident. Why should she be any different? Besides, you usually get tax credits on the difference

It’s normal to get taxed on your overseas income. If you had shares in a company abroad, you’d be expected to pay UK taxes on that as a resident. Why should she be any different? Besides, you usually get tax credits on the difference

😂

Don’t know why you think it’s so funny as she is definitely having to pay US taxes too due to her green card. If she doesn’t like paying her taxes she can give up her green card and her UK residency if she doesn’t like it.

How is Jeremy Corbyn worth one million? Unless you include his house. Even the tiniest terraced house in zone 2 is worth around a million. But that's not ready cash.