To wonder what’s deemed middle income, low income, high income?

[Callmesadie]

I’ve read a few posts where people are talking about people on middle income struggling to pay the bills.

Can anyone advise what’s deemed middle income please?

@Callmesadie I’m also in Notts.

Our household income before tax is almost 70k that is one wage and one pension, we are in our fifties.

DS still at home earns before tax 24k, this is a degree apprenticeship programme so he will have zero student debt.

We have paid off our mortgage.

I did a calculator that tells you where you sit in the household income distribution where you live. We live in London and our household income is £110k, and we’re apparently within the top 3% of income in London, in the top 1% nationally. And actually we are comfortable - not throwing money around but live in a nice though modest house, have multiple holidays a year, nice clothes. I’m not boasting - we’ve only been able to afford this lifestyle quite recently and are very aware how lucky we are, and how easily we could lose it again. So suggesting 125k is a “middle income” in London is at best disingenuous.

I think it’s easy to look around you and think you and your friends are representative but having a gross household income of more than £86,982 would put you in the top 10% of the uk. Most people earn much less than that and are genuinely suffering. Some humility if you’re one of the lucky ones doesn’t go amiss.

This is a helpful reality check:
https://ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in

Yep. Single people, especially single parents, are brutally penalised by the tax system. Their households pay tax after half the tax free allowance others get, start paying higher rate tax on half the amount, lose child benefit on half the amount, lose tax free childcare/ nursery funding on half the amount. With only one adult to do everything! And people wonder why those households struggle and the children in them have fewer opportunities and more poverty. If anybody cared about child poverty they'd switch tax to being on a household basis immediately.

I think you’d only qualify for UC if you had childcare costs on 35k tbh assuming no rent as mortgaged.

According to the IFS we are are better off than 95% of the population. It doesn't feel like it at the moment but I appreciate I'm lucky.

I just wonder how much the Rishi Sunaks of this country squew the figures? If I'm in top 5% when I'm really not well off... top 1%?

Average is around 30k
500k+ top 1%

Anything below 30k is low income
30k - 90k mid
Triple average is starting to hit higher income.

High income yes, because neither would struggle to pay the bills.

But middle income, say 70k joint... A couple with low/average mortgage and no children could afford the same luxuries as that high income family with large outgoings (so would that count as high income?) But 70k joint for a family of 5 with a high mortgage because they're young and only bought recently (i.e. not because they've chosen a luxury property) and 2 children in full time childcare + 1 in wrap around, could easily struggle to pay the bills. (So would that count as low income if they're struggling to afford the basics?)

@SolarEcrisp have you got a link to the one that considers location?

Yes, this is right. I get sick of reading on here that xx is average/middle income in London.

I think it's been demonstrated on here that the middle incomers are a broad range. -there should be lower middlers (the squeezed middle) and upper middlers (man bun, Ottolenghi)

I think if you are eligible for universal credit, you are lower income.

If you have no debt, or can afford 2 holidays abroad comfortably, then you are higher.

Some people feel richer on different incomes I reckon. Some people definitely have better quality of life on a lower income.

But if you want numbers I reckon

Poor: household income <35k
Lower middle 35k-65K
Upper middle 65K-150K
Higher 150K plus for a good while.

Here’s one that looks at London boroughs. It’s from 2019. It also mentions the U.K. figures. Basically, the median is around 30k for household income in London. Nationally, it’s around 28k.
www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/Documents/Borough_statistics/Income_poverty_and_welfare/income_2019_l.pdf

Apparently our household income puts us as earning more than 88% of households in UK which I cant believe

No, your “poor” figure is well above the median in London and considerably above the U.K. figure.

I'm on around 30k a year, live daan saaf. I get about 500 a month in benefits (childcare is extortionate). Rent for a 2 bed is 950. I definitely feel like I'm on a low income as after bills, fuel, debt from when I was on an even lower income, etc, I'm squeezed!

Are you using net pay? That’s what the ifs calculator uses

@Malfi wow, I'm appalled, that no way reflects how much more it costs to live in London does it.

@Tadpoll
Which benefits are these?

Not necessarily. Depending on how the income is split and how much they pay in to pensions a family with 2 DC with no rent, childcare, disability or carer elements may well be eligible for UC.

For example, if the £35k came from one income they would roughly have an income of £2300:
Standard allowance £525.72
First child £290
2nd child £244.58
Total = £1060.30

Earnings £2300
Work allowance £573
Earnings minus work allowance £1727

Deduction
Earnings x 0.55 =
£1727 x 0.55 = £949.85

Total allowed - earnings deductions = total UC for month
£1060.30 - £949.85 = £110.45

I read somewhere double median income = Well off, half median income= badly off.

our combined income is just under 100k. Some of my friends have a combined come of 50k, and say we are lucky to have a higher income.
However, we live in Essex, just half hour from central London where we work. We have very high outgoings and we have 4 children. So we don’t ‘feel’ like our income is high, if that makes sense. We have only had one holiday in ten years, for example. And we don’t go out for many meals or buy expensive clothes.
If we had the same income in another partner the country, I’m sure it would feel different.

• part of the country. Sorry for the typos!

Hah - that's my household income and no benefits entitled to here!

@Itstarts

You are still conflating income with outgoings.

Looks like it's those earning £19,352 and over.

Yes, but essential outgoings matter. A family with a 30k income is no where near the same as a single person on 30k.

It's only when you get to the real higher earners that it becomes irrelevant.