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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if this is illegal?

39 replies

WhenTheNightFalls · 24/10/2022 22:02

Goddaughter started at a nursery. She is 8 months old.
When I went to collect her as a favour, I saw that she was with 2 unqualified staff (I know this because they are both neighbours of mine.) The one qualified worker was out the room. I thought there had to be at least one qualified staff member in the room and that half had to have a level 2? I don't like the idea of 2 unqualified members of staff being left with babies. My friend (Goddaughters mum) not happy either

OP posts:
Oysterbabe · 24/10/2022 22:04

I'm unqualified and managed to look after my babies. I don't see the issue.

FfeminyddCymraeg · 24/10/2022 22:05

Illegal? As in against the law? What law would possibly cover this scenario? 😂

Fail an inspection? Maybe.

TTCBBY3 · 24/10/2022 22:06

Oh get an effing grip

Chickychoccyegg · 24/10/2022 22:08

The qualified member of staff is allowed to nip to the toilet or go for a coffee break, she'll still be counted as there as long as she's in the building.
No reason why you should worry just because these staff members aren't yet qualified, I'm sure they'll be experienced enough to know what they're doing for the short time they're not supervised.
Qualified doesn't always mean better in nursery, it means you've completed your qualification, not that your better with the children or have more common sense.
I wouldn't worry, maybe your friend can keep an eye on the situation, and if it happens regularly, she could ask.

YellowTreeHouse · 24/10/2022 22:09

YABU. Of course it isn’t illegal.

AryaStarkWolf · 24/10/2022 22:09

🙄

autienotnaughty · 24/10/2022 22:11

Yeah not illegal. As long as ratios are met it's fine.

WhenTheNightFalls · 24/10/2022 22:12

She was in another part of the building so not able to be called on if needed. Maybe I should have just googled instead of reading the sarcastic comments here. Apparently, one needs to be level 3 and at least half level 2. That isn't happening here so they are not sticking to guidelines.

OP posts:
FriendsOldAndNew · 24/10/2022 22:13

🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

just how many qualifications do you think is needed to look after a baby for a few minutes (or hours)

what qualifications in childcare do you have?

the baby's mum?

WhenTheNightFalls · 24/10/2022 22:14

Clearly I don't make the rules up but they are breaching it given what I have just read.
Even when in ratio they don't have the correct qualifications as at least one should be level 2

OP posts:
WatchoRulo · 24/10/2022 22:14

Have you redefined sarcastic as accurate?

ToadSmall · 24/10/2022 22:15

If we learnt anything from lockdown, it's that guidelines are not laws.

catfunk · 24/10/2022 22:15

Shit op I hope you had adequate qualifications to collect her and look after her

Latermumfairy · 24/10/2022 22:16

just how many qualifications do you think is needed to look after a baby for a few minutes (or hours) what qualifications in childcare do you have?

Would you feel the same if someone stood in for a police officer, a nurse or a teacher? Absolutely unqualified people should not be left in charge of large numbers of small infants - especially without the parents knowing. What would happen if one started choking? Are they trained?

Yes it is illegal and yes report them to OFSTED

kitcat15 · 24/10/2022 22:19

Guidelines are merely guidelines...they are not enforceable...they are not the law...just ask Boris 😅..... there will be times when staff can adhere to them...and times when they can't 🤷‍♀️

octoberweather · 24/10/2022 22:19

It actually is illegal, I managed a nursery. Report to ofsted and they will take your concern very seriously. This is why some babies have died!

Newmom054 · 24/10/2022 22:20

The comments are so unnecessarily rude.

Tbh you're right, there should always be a fully qualified member of staff in the room, especially in case of emergency. We are talking about our precious babies.

I'm not sure if I'd report it now or pull the manager to one side to express that you were a little concerned x

kitcat15 · 24/10/2022 22:21

Latermumfairy · 24/10/2022 22:16

just how many qualifications do you think is needed to look after a baby for a few minutes (or hours) what qualifications in childcare do you have?

Would you feel the same if someone stood in for a police officer, a nurse or a teacher? Absolutely unqualified people should not be left in charge of large numbers of small infants - especially without the parents knowing. What would happen if one started choking? Are they trained?

Yes it is illegal and yes report them to OFSTED

No its fucking not....unqualified does not mean they haven't done mandatory training ....thats completely different to being a qualified nursery worker....FFS 🙄

Kanaloa · 24/10/2022 22:22

Oysterbabe · 24/10/2022 22:04

I'm unqualified and managed to look after my babies. I don't see the issue.

I mean they’re your babies. Looking after your own baby is not the same as looking after children in a professional setting.

I wouldn’t be happy with it. In my experience nurseries that are too heavy with unqualified staff and apprentices aren’t good ones, they’re nurseries where they just want cheap staff rather than qualified and experienced staff. But it’s the type of thing I’d have asked when looking around. How many apprentices work here, how many qualified staff, how do you ensure ratios are met etc. Might be a bit OTT but there’s plenty of nurseries to choose from, why choose one that leaves apprentices (most often young and inexperienced) in charge?

Kanaloa · 24/10/2022 22:24

And I don’t know why people are making snotty comments about ‘ooh do YOU have qualifications to pick her up?’ Presumably if you go to look at a childminder you don’t just dump your child at any house on the street because ‘what qualifications do you need to care for kids anyway.’ If you look at a nanny I hope you would ask about their experience and qualifications rather than just say ‘well my baby’s grandma doesn’t have qualifications, so why should the nanny?’

Paid childcare should be provided by a good number of qualified staff. It’s the bare minimum.

antelopevalley · 24/10/2022 22:30

Why are so many comments defending a nursery acting illegally? Yes it is the law.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-qualifications-and-ratios/early-years-qualifications-and-ratios

Beachbabe1 · 24/10/2022 22:30

There are very strict regulations in nurseries and preschools. Either report to ofsted or the nursery manager.

QuillBill · 24/10/2022 22:35

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/974907/EYFSSframework--March_2021.pI

In settings on the early years register, the manager must hold an approved level 3 qualification or above and at least half of all other staff must hold at least an approved level 2 qualification

The manager should have at least two years’ experience of working in an early years setting, or have at least two years’ other suitable experience. The provider must ensure there is a named deputy who, in their judgement, is capable and qualified to take charge in the manager’s absence.

Staffing arrangements must meet the needs of all children and ensure their safety. Providers must ensure that children are adequately supervised, including whilst eating, and decide how to deploy staff to ensure children’s needs are met.

Providers must inform parents and/or carers about staff deployment, and, when relevant and practical, aim to involve them in these decisions. Children must usually be within sight and hearing of staff and always within sight or hearing.

Only those aged 17 or over may be included in ratios if they are suitable, as in paragraphs 3.9 to 3.11 (and staff under 17 should be supervised at all times).

Suitable students on long term placements and volunteers (aged 17 or over) and staff working as apprentices in early education (aged 16 or over) may be included in the ratios if the provider is satisfied that they are competent and responsible.

^The ratio and qualification requirements below apply to the total number of staff available to work directly with children37. Exceptionally, and where the quality of care and safety and security of children is maintained, changes to the ratios may be made. This applies to all settings but childminders cannot have more than six children under the age of eight per adult providing care. For group settings providing overnight care, the relevant ratios continue to apply and at least one member of staff must be awake at all times.
Early years providers (other than childminders)^

^For children aged under two:
• there must be at least one member of staff for every three children^^ at least one member of staff must hold an approved level 3 qualification, and must be suitably experienced in working with children under two
• at least half of all other staff must hold an approved level 2 qualification
• at least half of all staff must have received training that specifically addresses
the care of babies
• where there is a room for under two-year-olds, the member of staff in charge of that room must, in the judgement of the provider, have suitable experience of working with under twos^

RaininSummer · 24/10/2022 22:37

Some very odd comments here. There are stict rules about ratios and level of qualifications.

user1471457751 · 24/10/2022 22:39

Just because they are your neighbours doesn't mean you have a clue what qualifications they hold. I don't go around announcing my masters degree to those next door.

If your friend is concerned she should raise it with the nursery and get the facts first.