Ex Wife asking for more money AIBU

[bfc1980]

Ok this could be quite long so here goes.
EW and I are separated and coparenting 2 children for past 2 years. We share custody with a 4/3 day split in her favour but school holidays are split 50/50 and I pay her child support of around 470 pounds per month. We split school meals and learning support costs for the children 50/50. We also share our maid/nanny 4/3 days but pay her salary 50/50.

Today she phoned me asking for half of the cost of a birthday present for our DS friend tomorrow (about 10 pounds each). I said that it should ideally come out of the money I pay each month as that is what it should be used for along with extra curricular activities (which cost 50pounds per month), clothes, food and bills for the extra day per week she has them.

It's not the cost of the present that bothers me. It's that she expects me to pay half of any extras without any appreciation of the fact that I'm already paying so much each month for these things. In addition to paying this, I also buy clothes for the children which often end up at her house, costumes for special days at school (e.g black shirt and dress for Queen's funeral) and last month I bought our DS a new pair of football boots. Whenever I take the children to hospital, I pay the insurance excess (about 13 pounds) as does she when she takes them (although in the past month I've paid more than 70 pounds for hospital visits and medication for the children) and I bought the present for the last party our DS went to. I never ask her to pay half of these small things as I find it pointless and petty to do so.

Anyway, she's now furious with me and is saying that she will contact a lawyer to suggest that the children's standard of living is being reduced because I'm not willing to pay half. This concerns me as she has lawyers in her family who will give her free legal advice and representation. It also concerns me as when we originally split up, she said she wanted 900 pounds per month plus half of ALL expenses (lunches, learning support, clubs, medical etc) so she could maintain her lifestyle and if I didn't pay it, she would take the kids back to her home country and I'd only ever see them for a couple of weeks during the summer holidays.

Some points to consider:
We both work abroad
She earns about 2300 pounds per month after tax
I earn 3400 pounds per month after tax so after my child support payment her income is 2770 per month and mine is 2930 per month
Big ticket items like school trips are split 50/50

AIBU to stand my ground over paying half of these small cost items that she is often asking for or should I just put my hand in my pocket?

DP pays nothing as he has them 50/50. However, on occasion, she does seem to present goady requests, he just acquiesces. Pointless falling out over what is relative pennies or arrangements.

People on this thread cheering for conflict aren't the ones living with the consequences of it.

This is such a good point. Conflict is no fun for anyone.

Do you live in the real world Ivy? He earns £3k a month, he can't afford to pay her an extra few hundred a month or to keep 'throwing money at it'.

Get real.

People on this thread have actually RTFT. You have no idea what you're on about. How can he pay her a few extra hundred a month when he only earn around £3k?

And everyone knows the more you give to someone like this, the more unreasonable they become.

I've looked and yes it is part of the Hague convention. I have contacted a law firm where we're living this evening and hopefully they'll get back to me after the weekend.

@Obki You have no idea what you're on about that is so rude!

Ive read the whole thread and I’m in a situation with a very difficult ex. I know as much as anyone what I’m talking about.

Im just agreeing with the experienced lawyer who points out that in one’s own life, it can be beneficial not to have conflict.

There’s obviously a limit to this - where you have an abusive/ narcissistic type ex, but I wasn’t getting those vibes here, just a difference of opinion on a minor issue.

Really? Why not?

This is true. I can't afford to pay a couple of extra hundred quid a month. Yes 10 pounds I can. But it's the fact that I feel like I'm being taken for a mug. 10 pounds here, 15 pounds there. Where will it end? I wouldn't mind if I was asking her for half of the additional things that I pay for. But I don't, because it's petty. I did once ask for half the cost of a covid PCR test that I paid for our nanny when my ex and the kids got covid. But she said no. If I'm not asking or on the rare occasions I do and she says no, then she either shouldn't ask or just accept it if I say no.

TBH Op I think you’re absolutely fine to say no. And fine to say yes if you want to.

I do think you should probably say no if you think it will lead to more and more requests, and if she takes things to extremes like threatening to leave the country. But it seems so unlikely someone would leave the country over £5!

Jeez @bfc1980 has she always been this money grabbing?! She sounds vile

I think the “where does it end” is interesting.

Children can often attract seemingly endless expenses - this and that for school trips, presents for parties, now they need new something else - it probably seems needless to both of you.

I think parents need a clear agreement about how the endless expenses are met. Does one person get to say “this set amount from me covers everything, no matter how endless” - for instance if it’s a very generous amount. Or do you say “we accept expenses are unpredictable, so we’ll split then as and when”.

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way to do it, but it’s good to have a clear agreement at the beginning.

Endless not needless

Look, I'm not sure it's worth the fight for £10 but I do get the bigger issue.

Her having lawyers in the family is only relevant in as much as she will be able to seek legal advice (assuming they have the appropriate legal expertise) for free, while you'd have to pay. But I think there are a few things to consider here:

1. if she did up sticks and go back to her home country, I suspect that while you would absolutely be morally obliged to pay maintenance etc, it would be very difficult for her to enforce it. It would also mean she would have to have the children full time, potentially on less money. Why would she do that? even if you agreed a settlement or amount between you, she certainly wouldn't be able to ask you to contribute a tenner here or there.
2. your lawyer should advise you on whether she can remove the children from the country you're in without your permission and what your options are to prevent that. It doesn't feel like it's in the children's best interest to be removed from a loving and consistent parental relationship.
3. When you divorced, what was the settlement agreement. Are you paying her spousal maintenance vs child maintenance? How is that agreed and what are the legal requirements?

In a nutshell yes. I know exactly where it all comes from but there's no need to discuss it here.

If the mother of my child needed £10 to buy a present because she didn’t have enough money then I’d not think twice.

But this isn’t what is happening here.

You almost have the DCs 50/50 so you are already paying more than you are required to by law and this is more than enough to cover extras like birthdays.

I think the parent who has the child on the day of the party should also be responsible for paying for the present.

Did you initiate the separation?
She’s either money grabbing or just very bitter.

We're not divorced. Still separated. The amount of 470 plus half of lunches and learning support was what we agreed when we decided to break up. Nothing is legally enforced though as we haven't been to court about it. She initially demanded double that plus half of everything else the kids cost. This is when she said that if she can't maintain her lifestyle of going on holidays every 8 weeks to nice hotels, then she would take the kids back to her home country. I told her that this was blackmail and I would make sure that this is brought up in court if she tries it.
I had previously consulted a lawyer in her country before we split up who told me that the family court would most likely tell me to pay 300 pounds per month total based on the 4/3 night split. Spousal support isn't required in this situation since she is earning good money and is able to support herself. Her divorced friends, who either don't work or have low paying jobs, in her country are all receiving spousal support and child support which is financially crippling the men (although they only see the children every 2nd weekend). I think is why she is under the impression that she is entitled to receive more from me.

Based on your update, I'd add discussing how and when to get divorced to your discussion with your solicitor. Although instinctively, I'd assume that as you're still married and therefore surely share parental responsibility by any measure, it would make it harder for her to leave than it is.

And if she was poor and needed it then yes I would too. But she's not.

Yes I initiated it. But it wasn't something unexpected and it wasn't something that she didn't want also.

What is it like for the children if their parents fight about petty amounts of money, if their father complains about paying for their medication and football boots? That's terrible for their self esteem and your relationship with them. Show them you love them enough to rise above it.

What a shocking thing to write.

It's quite clear from OP's post that his ex is using finances as a controlling mechanism - in terms of OP's access to the DC and with the threat of moving back to her own country hanging over him.

I am in the other position with an ex who pays insufficient maintenance, who barely has the DC (2 of whom want almost nothing to do with him now) and is also unutterably mean about every small incidental cost e.g. a haircut, and has never bought a present for a party.

OP sounds like he is genuinely committed to supporting his DC fairly, and I think it is right that he takes legal advice and tries to formalise his situation.

50/50 doesn’t automatically negate maintenance in the way so many on MN seem to assume it does.

I think it depends on what costs are being incurred by each parent e.g. school meals, uniform, special foods, glasses, clothes,, pocket money etc

But generally here is the advice from CAB (I realise not relevant for OP as he in Asia):

If you both care for your child equally

You don’t have to pay child maintenance. The CMS will look at all the arrangements you have for caring for your child, not just how many nights they spend with each of you. You should keep a diary to show how often you care for your child so you can prove you share care equally.

I briefly worked for CMS and people (often men) were surprised that CMS also look at income disparity as well as other factors.

If, for an extreme example, you have one parent on min wage and one on a very high wage they consider the child’s lifestyle across both houses.

Was quite amazing how many times a person demanding 50/50 and a nil maintenance suddenly changed their wishes when they still had to pay something (even a very low amount)

Gf