Question for vegetarians and vegans!

[runnyeggontoast]

I’ve been strongly considering going vegan, or at least vegetarian, for a while but my will power just isn’t strong enough.

I don’t eat red meat often (I don’t hate it but I don’t really like it that much anyway) so I only eat chicken but even then I’m not fussed about it. I eat a lot of seafood and fish mainly. I don’t eat much dairy in a pure form so I wouldn’t miss that (cheese, milk, cream etc) but I eat lots of things with dairy in it and I’d struggle to give that up. I eat a lot of eggs too. I’m quite a fussy eater and found I didn’t like a lot of vegetarian or vegan substitutes and it made it even harder for me, never mind the fact my will power is rubbish.

but I love animals. I have dogs, horses and spend a lot of time around cows, sheep and chickens and it breaks my heart to think of what goes on in slaughterhouses and it makes me sick to think of them as food.

I don’t want to eat meat or dairy or eggs but my willpower is rubbish because ultimately I like fish and I like chocolate and I like chicken.

Does anyone have any advice, or does anyone know of any information about it that will convince my brain and upset me enough to stop eating meat and dairy?

TIA 😀

I'm an ex-vegetarian for medical reasons. Most people try to have meat-free days - I actively have to try to have meat-days, so I can get enough vitamins into my diet.

Unfortunately, because of the specific allergies I have, being a full-time veggie isn't realistic for me, as I cannot rebalance my diet without animal protein or living on supplements, and I don't want to pop a pill each day.

I think where I land is people have to do what's right for them. For example, I've been medically advised to eat eggs and I'm not financially struggling, so I only buy free-range eggs. With meat, I buy very little, but what I buy is high quality, where the animals have been treated well.

I think if you can afford to buy higher welfare animal products, you should. In today's climate though, I wouldn't judge anyone for buying battery eggs. I wouldn't do it, but they might have no other choice.

If you are genuinely prepared, Google for a video of "quick maceration" . I have never eaten another egg after watching that. But you won't be able to forget it so take care.

I am drawn to veganism, but I am challenged as I feel my children need the iron and protein meat provides - and cooking separate meals for myself would be a lot of faffing. Does anyone else here succeed in being vegan while feeding the rest of the family non-vegan?

I think you can just evolve your diet without making a big statement that you might find hard to maintain. I cut out red meat quite easily as I hardly ate any and then I didn't find it difficult to cut out chicken I try to swerve fish but sometimes on holidays I might

I don't get stressed about things like parmesan or Worcester sauce if I'm eating out or at friends

What a silly analogy. A true vegan sees their way of life as a philosophical belief. Would you suggest to a Muslim or devout Christian that they are only part time believers? The majority of people I hear these days labelling themselves vegan are not vegan. They simply 'eat' plant based food. For me, food is the easiest part of being vegan. There are much harder challenges.

It's better to have 10 "imperfect" vegans than 1 "perfect" one. Give up what you can completely and cut back on rhe things you struggle with as much as you can. If you want inspiration then follow a few vegan accounts eg Joey Carbstrong and watch some footage from inside slaughterhouses; it'll break your heart. I think if everyone was forced to confront the reality of meat and the farming industry them most people would be vegan.

Also Cowspiracy and Hogwood ( I think) on Netflix. I can't watch them 😢

I think you’ve misunderstood - I absolutely would say to a devout Muslim or Christian that they are still a Muslim or a Christian even when they had doubts over say, the afterlife or their faith. It’s silly to pretend you wouldn’t.

So @Pumperthepumper you're saying a person who eats dairy cheese can still 'believe' themselves to be vegan? It doesn't work like that.

Why not?

So do you believe that a Christian (or Muslim) who occasionally thinks ‘hmm, maybe there isn’t an afterlife after all’ can’t really be Christian (or Muslim)?

You're joking right? @Pumperthepumper You think a person can eat animals and still call themselves vegan? Maybe you mean follow a plant based diet. What sort of teacher are you btw?

So by your definition it wouldn't be disrespectful for me to visit the local church tomorrow and loudly declare I can't come on Sunday cos that's my devil worship day? MN is hilarious these days 😂

No, I’m not joking. People can eat whatever they like, and call themselves wherever they like.

So do you think you can’t be Christian anymore if you question your faith? You didn’t answer.

Questioning an afterlife is not the same as actually breaking the rules of their religion like committing a murder. You're not comparing like for like. In your example it would be a vegan 'thinking' about eating meat. Not actually eating it. At which point they are no longer a vegan. It's not difficult. Obviously you don't have to say which subject you are teaching to children but I'm mighty interested.

So a Christian (or Muslim) who commits adultery can no longer be a Christian (or a Muslim)? Ever again?

You've changed the question again though haven't you by adding 'ever again'?

If someone was a vegan and stopped then at a later date decided they wanted to follow that way of life again then yes, I'd say that's possible. But being a vegan on Monday and a meat eater on Tuesday etc etc and flip flopping between labels is just silly. And I think most meat eaters would agree with that too. I'm hoping at this point you're something like an art teacher and definitely not teaching history or the sciences.

You brought in the comparison to religion though. What about a Jewish person who occasionally eats pork, can they call themselves Jewish? You’re so reluctant to have this conversation that you introduced.

@Pumperthepumper do you work so hard to be so obtuse?

Vegan - doesn't eat or use any product that comes from an animal.

You say you're a teacher?

I don’t think you have to label it and entirely switch. Why not focus on occasional best quality / welfare chicken and fish, and same for dairy etc. we’ve been slowly cutting back on meat and when I do buy I tend to get the best whole chicken and eat the whole thing over a few meals. I personally don’t like the meat substitutes as I try to avoid highly processed food, but have plenty of beans and lentils.

Yes, I’m a teacher.

I didn’t eat any meat or dairy today, coincidentally. Am I a vegan now? And if not, how many days in a row would I have to do it for before I could decide, in my own mind, what to call myself?

I was once stuck in a traffic jam behind one of these lorries. My mother was with me and she found it devastating. These chickens were in a pathetic state and were going to one of the main suppliers. I've been vegetarian for 10 years, vegan for about 5. There are certain meats that I still miss but the cruelty involved means I just can't eat them.

I'm not reluctant at all but at some point you need to admit that a vegan has an actual definition. And that is:

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

That is why I said it's like a Christian who also claims to worship the devil. Because that goes completely against what a Christian is fundamentally. In the same way as eating animals goes against a vegan's fundamental beliefs. Vegans argue about trivial things but never the fundamental belief concerning eating animals. You can't be a devil worshipping Christian. You can't be an animal eating vegan.

Why not? You can call yourself whatever you like, it’s not like it’s a club and your subscription will be revoked. It literally makes zero difference if you choose to call yourself a vegan and occasionally eat a bit of Brie.

I’ve been veggie for decades. The first year each day I’d say to myself “just for today I won’t eat meat”. You can do a day. Eventually you lose the taste for it. I couldn’t eat it now (though I still think chicken smells good).

And @PoseyFlump you still didn’t answer - can you still call yourself Jewish if you occasionally eat prawns?

I didn’t eat any meat or dairy today, coincidentally. Am I a vegan now?

No. You ate plant based. Unless you have a philosophical belief that we shouldn't exploit animals?

I'm finding it hard to believe you're a teacher.

Oh I've just realised it's half term! You must be the kid, not the teacher 😂