Elderly parents ripped off and I don't know how to help!

[marmite14]

Posting on AIBU for traffic as absolutely at my wits end with Safestyle windows and my parents who are in their late 70's are so stressed with their current situation. I'm really looking for advice or WWYD.

My parents had 12 windows installed which are terrible quality, there is an issue with every window from broken handles, pealing plastics, chips and scuffs.

The windows were installed four months ago, but there are gaps around some of them, there are huge chunks of plaster missing inside and out and blue foam filling exposed round all of the windows.

After the most stressful FOUR months of trying to contact Safestyle (not one of my parent's phone calls were answered despite being on hold for over an hour each time), Safestyle have agreed that the windows are not acceptable.

They have offered my parents their money back so can go elsewhere.
This would be fine if the price of windows hadn't gone up so much since they bought them in February. Other window companies are now quoting thousands more, which my parents cannot afford, and they obviously cannot get their old windows back as they have been destroyed.

I cannot believe how badly they have been treated. They have no choice but to accept these faulty windows, which they have paid thousands for and are not representative of the sales sample they were shown. I have contacted trading standards, but does anyone have any advice?

You need a solicitor OP, they can't treat them like this. Also shop around more for some new quotes - sounds like you've just had 1 quote for 5k more?

This. Admittedly the end product was shoddy but Safestyle has offered a full refund so I fail to see what they have done wrong.

1. investigate with an independent if the current windows can be made good.

2. seek more quotes from local independents as even with price rises, it would be surprising for SSUK's refund to be the cheapest given how expensive they tend to be.

depending on 1 and 2, point out the unreasonableness of SSUK's offer on social media given they have destroyed the original windows and point out publicly they have fitted faulty, un-remediable windows. Insist they either need to offer a refund sufficient to pay for a competent firm, fit new replacement windows or refund and leave the windows until 'prices drop'/you can get a decent local firm to remedy.

Good luck.

You need legal help here op, do you have legal insurance on your house insurance? If not I’d try which legal services (or similar) to get a rough idea of where they lie legally in regard to any refunds, taking back windows, etc. It may be a strongly worded letter from a solicitor is required to get them to refund without taking back the windows (which sounds ridiculous).

I'd send them a legally worded letter saying you will sue them for shoddy work unless they agree to an additional 5k so that your parents can afford adequate replacements.

Also, get in touch with The Guardian's consumer champions. (And tell Safestyle you are doing this unless they respond within 24 hours to your letter about suing.) They will happily take on the case and make it very public. I contacted them once when my parents got scammed and they were brilliant. Really detailed advice about what i could do. I followed it and got the money back quickly. They were prepared to chase it if I hadn't.

They are only offering the refund on the condition they take away the windows leaving the client with empty frames. This isn't a solution. They have destroyed the original windows.

Their home insurance is a good shout for legal cover.
Write to the various newspaper money/consumer columns, Rip Off Britain, You and Yours (Radio 4) and any other organisation you can think of. Or even your local paper.
This is disgraceful. Good luck.

Maybe join Which? Legal advice for support.

Get their money back they talk to a local family run company or self employed fitter to repair the wall damage (to be fair replacement windows always cause some issues) and change handles etc as needed. Even if a couple of windows need fully changing they should be better off this way

I'd give an ultimatum

1. They refund the cost of the windows plus the additional amount it takes to make the windows good. They don't get to take the windows back.

1. They refund the cost of the windows plus the difference in price to have someone else install new windows. They get to take their windows back

1. You take it to court and social media.

In the meantime get quotes for options 1 and 2 (get a few from different tradespeople and allow for a bit of price inflation as this will probably drag on over winter) and try to get an hours free advice from a solicitor and possibly a no win no fee deal.

Also mention that if it drags on (especially if it goes the solicitor route) then you will also have to consider other expenses such as any water damage or additional heating costs that may be incurred.

They don't get to keep their windows as that leaves your parents out of pocket since they will not get their own windows back. They also should have insurance for their tradespeople to cover this.

Also nothing by phone. Keep it to emails in case you need proof. Take it higher if necessary the complaints procedure should be on their website

It definitely doesn't seem fair if they just refund the money they were paid without leaving your DPs with what they had before - i.e. their old (at least functional) windows.

I think, when you're selling an agreed/promised service (whether with goods as well), the service/supply element is of significant value in its own right, with the concomitant loss if it isn't delivered. Suppose you flew to a far-flung city for a two-week holiday and turned up at a hotel where you'd booked and prepaid for a room (with no real alternative), you would not consider it fair if they just told you they'd made a mistake or double-booked and gave you back nothing more than the cost you'd paid them, leaving you stranded and spoiling your entire holiday.

If a hotel double-books you, it's incumbent on them (morally, even if not technically legally) to find you alternative accommodation (whether at another of their own hotels or with a competitor) and then pay any additional cost. In this scenario, I think Safestyle should either have to replace their shoddy new windows with functional old ones of at least the same quality/condition as the old ones they ripped out or pay the extra to a proper company who can do a proper job. At the very, very least, they should refund the money and agree for their shoddy windows to remain in place until they have been replaced by decent ones.

Why do they even want the old ones back, anyway, if they've acknowledged that they're no good? Are they planning on foisting them on to another potentially-vulnerable customer and hoping they can fob them off? It's not like it's a matter of principle, where a customer's cheque might have bounced, so they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

It's also deeply concerning that their attitude seems to be not that 'this is a very unfortunate anomaly - we will remedy this for you' but that they accept that, even as a huge national company, installing quality windows to a decent standard is not something within their abilities or remit.

'Which' legal department is a great place to start.

could consider giving them the opportunity to re fit and do a better job? As like you say the refund won't stretch now. Surely they must get some jobs right or they wouldn't be in business? Or like another poster suggested to get them to cover the costs of adjustments and repairs.

So, basically, this is a matter of contract law. Safe style want them to agree to void the contract so everyone is put back to where they were before the contract happened. However, that’s not possible because your parents can’t get their old windows back. Therefore, your parents need to push for performance of the contract. They need to insist that safestyle fix or replace the windows so that they’re of the expected standard and specification.

It literally is as simple as that. They are entitled to get what they paid for. Safestyle can ask them to agree to void the contract but they can’t force them to. They need to say no, insist on performance.

When did they pay for the windows and by what method? They should have held back some of the money until performance was completed.

Do you have a copy of the contract?

Ordinarily, when works are defective, the contractor needs to make good their defects. I wouldn’t accept the refund, I would insist they return to fix the problem.

If they don’t, then they need to cover the cost of you having workable windows.

But if they refund then it's only going to cost £5,000 to get them all replaced with better quality windows which means they will only be paying £5,000 for the whole lot, not 'another' £5,000.

I think you've misunderstood. It's £5k more than the original cost.

This is confusing. I think we need a little more detail. Ok so if your parents get refunded they would be spending that money plus £5,000 to get a better job done. So out of interest, unless I missed it what exactly did they pay for 12 windows and what do they consider is too much to pay? For all we know they could have got it done on the cheap and quite literally got what they paid for.

Yes. But what was the original cost? It could have been peanuts for all we know.

What does the contract say op?

And all that you have outlined here

is this second hand from your parents or direct from safestyle?

You need to push for the proper execution of the contract they paid for windows out and replaced with suitable windows they cannot undo the contract and leave them with holes in there home

Arnt windows made to measure anyway? So removing the window feels like a dick move to force them into accepting sub par windows don't do it demand they execute the contract

Unless OP actually gives a hint what they paid for 12 windows it's difficult to know if another £5,000 on top of what they paid really is more than the going price for a dozen windows.

Contact that scam tv program Gloria hosts in the mornings?

Why is that relevant? They don't have another £5k so whether it's a goof price is neither here or there