We work hard.

[Meili04]

I keep seeing this on threads about Middle income families having to make cutbacks. The hardest job I ever had was when I worked in a care home as a care assistant doing 12.5 hour shifts for minimum wage. I now do a different job I have more paperwork to do and responsibility but I earn lots more and it's less tiring work. Same with my OH he works from home and his work is a lot less hard then it was when he started out and gets more pay.

AIBU to think if you are earning more money sometimes it's down to luck/personality/ rare skills more so than simply working hard?

I think most people work hard in one way or another tbh. Physical jobs, high stress jobs l, jobs with long hours or difficult customers. And those doing unpaid work like caring for children or relatives.

A few have a cushy life but percentage wise, not that many.

Agree with that. Also the higher you go the more responsibility you carry.

Both me and DH are very well paid but we don’t really work hard to be honest.
I get paid for having over 25 years of experience and contacts in my field and DH gets paid for having excellent tech skills and a huge amount of responsibility

In my industry the more senior you get the less actual physical doing of the work but more strategic and carrying the can. More responsibly and more pressure. The person at the bottom doesn’t have to worry once they close their laptop, the person at the top is probably working more late hours.

Exactly this. Any thread about people earning decent salaries, people always mention working hard, taking opportunities, putting in the hours, smart choices etc. All those things can be true but often - not always - coupled with privilege or advantage of some kind. (Having a stable home, going to a good school/private education, being intelligent or having a natural talent , chance to go to university, knowing the right people, opportunities presenting themselves at a particular time... or sometimes...luck) i think some people don't like this pointed out because they feel like you're saying they didn't work hard. But the 2 things are not mutually exclusive, you can be 100% committed and hard working and have some advantage over other people.

It really grated when Victoria Beckham won some kind of entrepreneurial award - she had a huge head start in starting a business in the fact she was a millionaire to start with and didn't have to raise the capital to put into it. She might have worked just as hard as the next person but she already had a massive advantage. (Extreme example obviously!)

DH bought his first house in the early 1980s. He doesn't like it if I point out that in some ways he was lucky to have had the opportunity at that particular period in time. He protests he worked really hard for it (he did) but the point is a young person now working just as hard in a similar level job could never dream of buying the same house.

“The higher you go the more responsibility you carry” It’s also notable though that for some number of people at the very top even when they fuck up that responsibility they still depart with a golden handshake.

The basic point is that being in a senior position on a high income doesnt necessarily mean you have worked harder than anyone else, which is something I see people claim on here all the time and it does wind me up. People always claim they got where they are purely off their own hard work and sensible choices when the reality is there is much more too it than that. There are so many factors at play which determine someone's career path and we don't have control over all of them.

My comment wasn’t binary. In fact the exact opposite. To move up you need both hard work/good choices AND luck, opportunity and privilege. The problem is that people tend to over credit their hard work/good choices and under- acknowledge the role of luck, opportunity and privilege.

And your comment is an apt illustration of what sociologists have found:
But you’ll probably find the majority of middle earners just put consistent work into the right area to end up where they are

Just put consistent work into the right area. Just, as in the one and only reason for success. So you’re blatantly over-crediting hard work/good choices by saying for most middle earners it is 100% the only reason for their success.

True, it is about working hard and being in the right place at the right time (luck). But as well as those who work hard and miss an opportunity, there are many that work hard and never get an opportunity.

I do think lots of people overstate their effort. On the thread about being in the middle and squashed the OP goes from describing normal full time work to ‘we’re working out arses off’ in the course of two posts.

IME it’s quite unusual to work your arse off……especially if your job is one of those involving lots of zoom and some emails.

People feeling like they’re working incredibly and uniquely hard seems to be driving some dissatisfaction currently.

I work > 12 hr shifts and don’t usually get to eat/drink/wee in that time. Still wouldn’t really say I’m working my arse off. Just working, as many people do. I feel glad to have meaningful, difficult work that can’t be done between 9 and 5.

Not all desk jobs are 9 -5

Although I am now on tea break - although these mind breaks are key to creativity

Although I am also glad to be doing something very worthwhile - I couldn't take this stress and pressure without that knowledge

@MissTrip82
Yes I agree. And other posters have said similar things along the lines of “we work hard so we deserve to have nice things (list of luxuries) in our life otherwise what is the point” and “we work our arses off so why should we accept any decline in our lifestyle?”

They feel they work harder than those on lower incomes and so think they are also entitled to government help of some sort to maintain their MC lifestyle. They don’t begrudge the government help to lower income people, so long as it keeps them to essentials only, while they “the squeezed middle” deserve help to have their bit of luxury that they’ve “worked hard for.”

In general, you're right. I'm at my highest income now and have to work hard but some of my hardest non-stop jobs were paid much less.

There's some sort of quote which says something like if hard work was all it took to be rich, then carers would be the richest of all.

As someone has suggested upthread, I think the mental load of people on lower income outside of the workplace is probably harder. So to borrow the previously used example of surgeon and hospital porter; yes, the surgeon has the larger mental burden while performing their role, but are much more likely to able to afford the things that make their lives easier outside of work. For example, high-quality, reliable childcare, a cleaner, supermarket deliveries etc. Whereas the porter might not have access to these things so has the additional stress and workload when they finish their shift. I don’t think this disparity can be overlooked when we’re comparing who works “hardest”.

Both ends are hard work in their own way. Frontline work is physically and mentally draining for little reward but less responsibility if things go wrong. Get senior enough and if the front line gets it wrong you could end up in jail/national papers/life ruined which I'm sure brings its own level of stress! I wouldn't want to be Liz Truss or the chief exec of the Kent hospitals right now for instance.

Two people work the same hours but one earns £20k and one earns £100k. No, the second person does not work 5x as hard as the first person! They’ve been lucky to get their job. I’m not saying they don’t work hard - of course they do. But they’re not working any harder than anyone else.

‘Work hard’ is the wealthy’s sop to themselves to justify huge incomes. No one can deny someone doing 3 jobs is working hard. That person doing 3 jobs probably didn’t have the means or opportunities to ‘work hard’ and get a degree, or their foot in the door of something more lucrative.

I don’t see the posts re. Middle class and no help as working on this principle - they’re talking about how above a certain income level you get zero help, and are treated the same as the millionaire, and expected to just suck up the hideous inflation.

working hard is different for everyone, but for those super wealthy saying ‘I worked hard, I deserve this’ is distasteful and rubbishes anyone else’s efforts. Typical Tory I’m alright, Jack.

The difference is that most middle income families don't receive any benefits because they earn over the threshold or have savings whereas a lot of lower paid workers can work part-time hours and then get tax credits or UC so they get their benefits massively topped up. So yes, they often are working harder because they work full time although the job itself might be less physically strenuous they still have to do 5 days travelling into an office and back.

The most physically tiring jobs I've done were events. Racking up a step count of 30k a day, easy.

However, the most grinding work mentally was a mid-level project manager role. Travelling to the four corners of the country, working on the train, working at the weekend, not being able to stop thinking about it on holiday.

And the worst work I've experienced was senior leadership during a crisis. I ended up signed off with stress, and never went back. I still feel the effects today of what was a period of six weeks.

I don't think any job level has a unique claim to working hard. I do think that like it or lump it, if all you have to sell is your PHYSICAL ability to work, then yeah, you're offering the lowest common denominator.

What I sell my hours on is my ability to knock 10% off an operational budget or spend 25% less time on admin. That is innately more valuable to most organisations.

But I'm not going to claim I work hard. I've been there, done that, and the most enjoyable of the three listed above was the events work.

@colddayinhell
a lot of lower paid workers can work part-time hours and then get tax credits or UC so they get their benefits massively topped up

Theyre not “massively topped up” because their total incomings per person are still less than 40hrs/week on NMW. And you can only work part time hours and keep benefits due to young children or ill health. This isn’t an option taken by choice but by necessity.

It's also what you perceive to be "middle". Me and dh work for charities, both have worked hard for qualifications but not loaded. We wanted job satisfaction over money. In current climes this is a challenge.

I used to be "Internal Sales Co-ordinator" it was a full time desk job, 9-5 Mon-Fri, salaried so no over time, I have a BTech in Business and Finance, 20+ years experience.

The thought of sitting behind a desk all day made me feel so depressed I just couldn't do it anymore. It's so mind numbingly boring.

I now work as a carer, I'm studying for my NVQ, I work 12 hour shifts over night and it's non stop. I've never worked so physically or mentally hard. It's also hard emotionally and there's lots of studying, training, record keeping, paper work, etc. Yes, I wipe arses for a living but it's so much more than that. It's a challenge every single day, in every way. No two days are the same.

Do I deserve to earn as much or be as respected as in my previous job? Hell yes! All that and a fuck ton more on top.

And with the "we work hard" from middle income I think what they're saying is "we work FT and there's no more we can do, yet we are struggling financially." It comes from the idea that you work hard you will be rewarded. Be that manual or non-manual labour. Thing is no-one is being fairly rewarded at the moment.

One of the easiest jobs I ever had was the best paid.

The hardest workers I know are carers. They are on minimum wage. A brilliant carer I know gave up and became a shop assistant because the hours, conditions and pay were all better.

They have skills that are valued more by society and may be scarce. That's why people get paid more.

If you work on the checkout, lots of people are capable of doing that job so you are paid less as you are more replaceable

If you're a spinal surgeon not many people can do that so you're paid much more.

It's not a question of who works harder. It's a question of supply and demand.